Taking DS to the womens bathroom

amother

Lawngreen

Tue, Jul 25 2017, 10:16 am

yOungM0mmy wrote:

You're absolutely right that it depends on the child, my 11 year old is short and slight and not really approaching puberty yet. He doesn't actually go anywhere by himself because we live too far from school and his friends, he just walked to school by himself from my grandmother who lives around the corner for the first time last week. If he walks to shul without an adult, he's with his brother. If it was just me and him, and I needed to use the toilet, which has happened, he comes into the ladies' toilets with me and stands right outside the door to my stall, again - nothing to see because all the women doing their business are in closed stalls.

He is going to overnight camp this year for the first time, we've had the discussion about private parts for years already, with him and all his siblings, we've had the talk about hormones and body changes...I probably do need to give him more independence, but it's definitely not starting with public toilets.

Ok well as one of those other women using the restroom I'm not thrilled about your 11 year old standing out there watching women fix up their clothes, pull up their tights and fix their make up. You should bring him in the stall with you or watch him from the men's room door.

amother

Cerulean

Tue, Jul 25 2017, 10:39 am

Squishy wrote:

I am extremely uncomfortable when bigger boys use the lady's rest rooms and locker rooms. It is not nice for the patrons. Often there is space between the wall and the doors. I once yelled at a boy around 7 who was looking through as I was doing my business.

I know two BTs who told me they were having relations at 12. You can't change biology, and most people would agree that bringing big boys in to these spaces is rude.

Kids need to learn appropriate restroom behavior regardless of which restroom they are using. A boy who is peeking through the cracks in the ladies room is really at risk if he does that alone in the men's room...

33055

Tue, Jul 25 2017, 10:49 am

amother wrote:

ITA, but it is up to the parents to do this.

What about the 11 year old girls needing to buy sanitary supplies? Have you any idea how humiliating a tween boy in the bathroom is to a tween / teen girl using the facilities? That girl is at risk!

Let's ask the tween girls how many welcome tween boys in the bathroom. I can tell you my daughter is so modest that she found it embarrassing to walk into the doors of a public restroom when she was younger?

amother

Cerulean

Tue, Jul 25 2017, 11:16 am

Squishy wrote:

It sounds like your daughter was self conscious. I agree that boys who are obviously preteens should not be in the ladies room barring unusual circumstances. A 7 year old peeking between the cracks is a separate issue, and as I said, someone should be teaching him etiquette. An appropriately behaved 7 yo boy should not be considered offensive in the ladies room.

SixOfWands

Tue, Jul 25 2017, 11:16 am

Why does everyone think that kids are so "at risk" in a public restroom? There's usually one door in and out. You're waiting outside. And unless you're stopping at an isolated spot in the Mojave Desert at 3 am, they're usually pretty busy.

I'm sure that there are instances of stranger assaults in restrooms, but they're pretty rare.

I wouldn't send my 4 year old into a mens' restroom alone, because I wouldn't send my 4 year old anywhere alone. But an 11 year old? In 5th / 6th grade?

33055

Tue, Jul 25 2017, 11:35 am

SixOfWands wrote:

If a mother is so worried about her 11 year old son, she should maintain voice contact or listen on an open cell phone.

petiteruchy

Tue, Jul 25 2017, 12:22 pm

Seven is the limit for me, special needs aside. If your 8 year old can't navigate using the washroom alone while you wait outside, then you have bigger problems than relations offenders who are supposedly just waiting to pounce.

I mean, I suppose if you're visiting an area with completely foreign bathrooms that your child has no experience with, or there's some other situation that warrants your specific observation or help, but I do think you're stunting your kids and causing issues for others if you won't let your 2nd or 3rd grade child out of your sight for 5 minutes.

saw50st8

Tue, Jul 25 2017, 12:35 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

You don't know who is hiding in the bathroom. I would rather an adult be with my son. At 11, if he's going with his brother, I might allow that because they can watch out for each other. But my oldest is 9 so I'm not there yet.

33055

Tue, Jul 25 2017, 3:25 pm

DrMom wrote:

Is this common practice in the US?

The me, this whole thread sounds a bit crazy, but I live in Israel so maybe it is cultural.

LOL people go to simchas and leave on open cell phones with babies in cribs. Do they do that in EY?

The whole thing sounds crazy to me also, but I read that this what you should do if you are concerned with a boy using the lady's room.

I, 100%, would never make another lady or a girl uncomfortable for a moment by bringing a big boy to the ladies room. If you don't think an 11 year old boy is not aware of what is going on around him, in the stalls, under the stalls, in front of the mirrors, then you are kidding yourself.

DrMom

Wed, Jul 26 2017, 1:41 am

Iymnok wrote:

Yes, Israel must be very different... or just the Ramot mall last week!

I'm not claiming that no child has ever ever been molested in a public bathroom min E"Y.

But you have to weigh the risks.

I can see accompanying a 5-year-old who can't reach the soap dispenser. But an 11-year-old??

I think 11 years old is *far* beyond the age at which children need to be accompanied to the restroom in your average suburban shopping mall or department store or restaurant.

Not only because bringing an 11-year-old boy into the women's room would make the other women uncomfortable, but also: What kind of fearful, overly-dependent children are we raising if we baby a 6th-grader like this?

Amarante

Wed, Jul 26 2017, 4:31 am

I am also confused about what possible harm could befall an 11 year old who goes to the bathroom alone in a public place.

Obviously it's a continuum and no one would bat an eye at a 5 year old boy in a woman's room but I think most women would think it very peculiar and feel uncomfortable if a boy of 8 or up was in there.

FWIW, I think the paranoia level of thinking it is dangerous for an 11 year old boy to go to the bathroom unaccompanied is harmful to both the parent and child. Most people would let their kid go to a public restroom at this age by themselves.

Are you afraid a child is going to be snatched on the way to and from the bathroom? It seems the most unlikely of scenarios unless the child is somehow developmentally disabled. Isn't a child on his own and taught how to avoid danger by this age. Wouldn't a normal child scream if being snatched in a restaurant.

As for actually being in a men's room alone, again I am not sure what the fear is. Of actual molestation? Certainly the mother can wait outside the door and if the child doesn't emerge after a reasonable amount of time, one can make inquiries. Or even ask a man going in to check to see what is happening although the paranoid might then worry that the man checking is a pervert - the chain of hysterical paranoia can stretch on and on but it's not rational IMO based on the actual risk of being in a public toilet with someone knowing the child is in there and should be out of there in a short period of time. In general the boy would be urinating I would imagine based on frequency odds.

As a woman, I wouldn't want a tween boy in the restroom and would think the woman bringing the tween boy in was both paranoid and selfish by inflicting him on modest women. A difficult situation because many women would want to ask the woman to take the boy out but wouldn't speak up.

As an observer, I would think the development of the child is being severely impacted by a mother who doesn't let the child have normal independence and learn how to function normally in the world. I would also think (or judge) that the mother is impacting the development of the boy in other detrimental ways as well. An assumption true but one that frankly I would make if I observed a tween in a woman's bathroom with a mother.

saw50st8

Wed, Jul 26 2017, 7:48 am

That's funny Amarante. I don't consider myself a paranoid parents and give my kids a lot of freedom. But I don't think the bus terminal at Port Authority is a great place to let them go by themselves.

If you are waiting outside the door until it has been too long, you are already too late. I don't understand your modesty point. What is a woman doing in the public area of a bathroom that requires women only? Anything a woman is doing in that area should be for public viewing or be done in a stall.

33055

Wed, Jul 26 2017, 8:16 am

saw50st8 wrote:

The toilet in the bus terminal at Port Authority is the extreme example.

Amarante is right that it is selfish and inconsiderate to bring an older boy into the ladies room. We school our children by separate genders. We doven separately. We don't socialize mixed. Yet, you want big boys toileting with big girls and women.

Are you operating on the assumption that what goes on in the stalls is not visible through the cracks? What about sounds and smells. What of someone needs to purchase a tampon? At the age of 11 boys find potty humor hysterical. Passing gas is humorous and can set the group off.

saw50st8

Wed, Jul 26 2017, 8:37 am

Squishy wrote:

I would hope my child has been taught not to look through the cracks or care if someone is buying tampons. If he has not mastered that skill at 11, he is likely immature and definitely shouldn't be trusted in a public bathroom by himself!

I'm not sure why you think Port Authority is an extreme example. It's a public bathroom where I am likely to take my kids to the bathroom if they need. It's gross and there could be predators in the bathroom.

I don't want my big boys "toileting" with women (which I guess to you means standing at the sink washing his hands or being in a private stall). I want to live in a society where my sons will be safe in the bathroom. But I would rather protect them even if it makes you slightly uncomfortable. Your discomfort in public society is not worth my son being molested, especially since you are talking about a public place. I'm not walking into Vishnitz and putting my son in the womens bathroom.

33055

Wed, Jul 26 2017, 8:51 am

saw50st8 wrote:

I would not want my husband to toilet my son in the port authority bathroom. I would suggest going elsewhere.

"It is not an idle warning.

Port Authority police officers have arrested more than 60 people this year in the bus terminal on public lewdness charges, a sevenfold increase over the same period last year. Most of those arrested were accused of touching self in the second-floor bathroom. According to court records, they were observed by plainclothes officers, who were often standing next to them at an adjacent urinal."

The port authority is known as a place where pimps pick up runaways. Truly, it is the wrong place to take kids.

This isn't the same as say the bathroom in Macys in the Pallisades Center Mall. This is where I saw the young boy looked through the doors at me in the stalls.

Your reasoning is weird. If your son looks through the doors, then he should go to the ladies room because he is immature?

It is not a case of slightly uncomfortable. It is very uncomfortable. I detest this. I detest people not being considerate of the feelings of others.