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Taking DS to the womens bathroom
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CDL




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 26 2017, 1:02 pm
melbee wrote:
My 6-year old still comes with me if we're by ourselves, but my 8-year old goes in the men's room. I stand outside and say very loudly that I will be right here if he needs me and that if he takes too long or doesn't answer if I call him, then I'm coming in.

Why would anyone have a problem with this? I'd do exactly this. What's the issue? Why would he need to be in a ladies bathroom with you? Simply tell him to call you if he has any issues. He should anyways know at age 8 to yell out to you if he feels unsafe. Standing right outside is generally not too far away to hear.
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Aylat




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 26 2017, 2:38 pm
yOungM0mmy wrote:
Totally not true, funnily enough, see this thread from yesterday on a facebook moms group I'm on, not a frum group at all (I didnt comment on this one).

https://m.facebook.com/groups/.....53277


Couldn't open this link but a few weeks ago there was this exact discussion on another fb group I'm on. Helicopter parenting is not limited to our community.
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saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 26 2017, 6:20 pm
Squishy wrote:
The 11 year old fought him off, and the man was mentally impaired. Obviously the mother was not outside the bathroom waiting for her children.

I know what my rabbi would say about you, so I asked a friend of mine who holds a PHD in psychology and teaches at a major university plus has a thriving private practice. It should go without saying that she publishes regularly. I will report back.

I am not having an extreme reaction to a kid using a bathroom. That is a ridiculous statement. You want to bring a boy who may be in pubity, but is defiantly approaching pubity, into the ladies room. You give no thought to the comfort of others, nor are you considering your son's development.

You didn't answer what age you would stop inflicting your son on ladies toileting and nursing.


You find my reaction extreme, but I find your "It is not a case of slightly uncomfortable. It is very uncomfortable." extreme as well. That's ok. We can have a difference of opinion and totally disagree.

I'm not inflicting anything on my son. I'm ensuring his safety. I will ensure his safety for the rest of his life, though the practical nature of that changes with time. At what age will he stop coming with me to the women's rest room? I can't answer that because he's 9 right now and there are so many variables. When I feel that it's safe to send him unescorted into a public bathroom, that's when he will start exclusively using the mens room. Feel free to PM me every time you leave the house to ensure we aren't using the same bathroom LOL

About the 11 year old - it's not obvious the mother wasn't right outside. It takes seconds for an adult to grab a child and then have the child react and yell and then the mom run in. The entire event could have taken 30 seconds at most. It is still too late.
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Wed, Jul 26 2017, 6:24 pm
saw50st8 wrote:
You find my reaction extreme, but I find your "It is not a case of slightly uncomfortable. It is very uncomfortable." extreme as well. That's ok. We can have a difference of opinion and totally disagree.

I'm not inflicting anything on my son. I'm ensuring his safety. I will ensure his safety for the rest of his life, though the practical nature of that changes with time. At what age will he stop coming with me to the women's rest room? I can't answer that because he's 9 right now and there are so many variables. When I feel that it's safe to send him unescorted into a public bathroom, that's when he will start exclusively using the mens room. Feel free to PM me every time you leave the house to ensure we aren't using the same bathroom LOL

About the 11 year old - it's not obvious the mother wasn't right outside. It takes seconds for an adult to grab a child and then have the child react and yell and then the mom run in. The entire event could have taken 30 seconds at most. It is still too late.


I think people weren't worried about what you are inflicting on your son bringing him into the ladies room, but more that you are inflicting an uncomfortable situation on all the other ladies.
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saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 26 2017, 6:25 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
So I take it that you don't allow your children to play any sports, or that you stay with them at every practice. Because a lot more kids get molested on sports teams than do in restrooms.

And that you keep them with you at shul at all times. Because kids have been molested at shul.

And that you homeschool. Because kids have been molested in schools. And parks. And at friends' homes. And everywhere else.

What makes a public restroom different?


I do stay with my kids at sports events unless another trusted adult is there to supervise. I also choose my school and shul carefully. There's a shul nearby where there was a man suspected of possibly molesting his kids and when we went there once for a simcha, I spoke to my kids about inappropriate touch and then kept them with me.

The difference with things like shuls, schools and group activities is that you can research the instructors, get to know the parents involved and analyze the risks. You can't eliminate risks altogether, but you have access to information. You don't have any of that information in a large public place. You don't know who is on the other side of the door in the mens room. It could be no one, it could be a creepy molester. Considering that it is a known risk, I'll choose the less risky path.

ETA: About the pictures of the boys posted - I wouldn't assume anything nefarious but I would take watch. I wouldn't mind if all bathrooms became bathrooms for all, so you are probably barking up the wrong tree.


Last edited by saw50st8 on Wed, Jul 26 2017, 6:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 26 2017, 6:27 pm
amother wrote:
This. If you're so worried about the safety of your tween son bring him in the stall with you instead of having him stand out in the public space of the ladies room. Inconvenience yourself not all the other women.


When family bathrooms or larger stalls are available, we do all go into one, everyone turns around and takes turns. But you can't squeeze 5 people in a small stall LOL

I'm really laughing at the insinuations of me being a helicopter mom or something. Other people tell me I'm too laid back!!
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amother
Amber


 

Post Wed, Jul 26 2017, 6:28 pm
amother wrote:
I think people weren't worried about what you are inflicting on your son bringing him into the ladies room, but more that you are inflicting an uncomfortable situation on all the other ladies.


Why would you be uncomfortable? Do you not close the door when you go inside the stall?

I probably would be okay with my son that age going into the men's toilets himself though I honestly can't understand what is so private and uncomfortable about the exterior of the toilet stalls.
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Maya




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 26 2017, 6:33 pm
Squishy wrote:
I asked 3 times those that think tween boys are ok to take into a ladies room, is Bar Mitzvah too old?

Is there an age that is too old? Maybe Sonnyboy should be toileted by his wife.

My kid is a very small 11 year old, and it never dawned upon me that people would be uncomfortable with him in the women's restrooms. He doesn't hang around looking into stalls; I supervise him going into his stall, wait until he's done his business, watch him wash his hands, and we leave. What's the big deal?

To answer your question, I'd probably stop doing this once he hits puberty. Maybe sooner. I don't know. But for as long as no one is uncomfortable with this, I'm very tempted to keep doing it.

Regarding the Palisades mall, I'd never allow my kid alone in the men's room there. There are some very unsavory characters hanging out in that mall.


Last edited by Maya on Wed, Jul 26 2017, 6:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 26 2017, 6:36 pm
amother wrote:
I think people weren't worried about what you are inflicting on your son bringing him into the ladies room, but more that you are inflicting an uncomfortable situation on all the other ladies.


If you read Squishy's posts, she thinks I'm psychologically scarring my son by taking him to the ladies room. Being in public spaces usually does mean passing somewhat uncomfortable situations. How many people complain about women openly nursing in public? We all make different choices for our families and if you can't function in a public space in ways that might be uncomfortable for you, then you need to stay home. The world is full of different cultures and attitudes and some may not agree with your worldview. That's OK too.
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causemommysaid




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 26 2017, 8:20 pm
Squishy wrote:
Lovely lady!

Of course you don't $#&%ing care about others; it shows.

At least some of the other posters bringing tween boys into ladies rooms acknowledge that women legitimate have objections.

If 11 is ok, then what age is not? Is Bar Mitzvah boys okt bring in?


I am a lovely lady. Thank you.

Your feelings are valid and your objection is legitimate but when they come into conflict with my child's safety then my child's safety comes first. Not even a question and I am not the least bit sorry about it. I do what I need to do to keep my kids safe.

I think around 10 or 11 depending on the circumstances is when a child can go to the restroom alone in public. I will have to evaluate when my son is older. If my son hits puberty before then and grows a foot then I may determine he is ready sooner but most boys don't start maturing till around 12 or 13.

Just a question for those who are so against little boys in your restroom, in today's day and age transgender people can use any restroom they want. You may encounter it at any time in any place. Don't you think it is in your best interest to get comfortable sharing your sink and mirror space since the law determined you have no rights in this department anyway?
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amother
Gold


 

Post Wed, Jul 26 2017, 8:37 pm
I actually do take my son with me in my stall and have him turn around while I use the toilet. But if I'm with all of my (4) kids, I have my two older ones go into stalls themselves and I take the two younger ones with me in my stall.

He doesn't even have WHEN to look into other stalls because either he's peeing (while I am) or he's in there with me (taking turns).

Squishy, you still haven't answered the question of what is so bothersome about an 11 year old boy in the next stall over? Or in front of the sinks?
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 26 2017, 8:44 pm
Can we all just agree that if we are okay with pre-puberty boys going into the women's bathroom, we are also all okay with medically-reversed-puberty born-male individuals going into the women's bathroom?

I just need one little show of unity on this thread. For all of klal yisroel.
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amother
Cerulean


 

Post Wed, Jul 26 2017, 8:52 pm
amother wrote:

If your 11 year old BOY is so developmentally disabled, that he is unable to function safely in a public space for a minute with safeguards like someone standing outside, then perhaps you should not bring him to public areas since you are foisting your OWN right to make other people uncomfortable for no reason and placing your own neurotic selfish needs over those of others.


This is so incredibly hurtful. May you never have a child with that level of developmental disability.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 26 2017, 8:58 pm
saw50st8 wrote:
I do stay with my kids at sports events unless another trusted adult is there to supervise. I also choose my school and shul carefully. There's a shul nearby where there was a man suspected of possibly molesting his kids and when we went there once for a simcha, I spoke to my kids about inappropriate touch and then kept them with me.

The difference with things like shuls, schools and group activities is that you can research the instructors, get to know the parents involved and analyze the risks. You can't eliminate risks altogether, but you have access to information. You don't have any of that information in a large public place. You don't know who is on the other side of the door in the mens room. It could be no one, it could be a creepy molester. Considering that it is a known risk, I'll choose the less risky path.

ETA: About the pictures of the boys posted - I wouldn't assume anything nefarious but I would take watch. I wouldn't mind if all bathrooms became bathrooms for all, so you are probably barking up the wrong tree.


All the molestation victims I have met or know of in the community were molested by members of the community at camp, school, shul, and on the school bus. I have met one of Webbermen's unindicted victims. They were victimized by rebbes, older boys, a bus driver. I know a victim who was molested at YSV and UTA camps. All molested by those more powerful and trusted in the community.

I don't know of one molestation victim in a public restroom.

Speak to YSV parents and instructors. They can set your mind at ease, but it does not change what happened there. Those instructors and parents are well thought of In the community. In same gender situations homosexuality increases.

You should fear your son being abused by those he trusts more.

How do you let your son use the toilets in school without you there? That is a dangerous place.

Edited for typo.


Last edited by 33055 on Wed, Jul 26 2017, 9:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Wed, Jul 26 2017, 9:01 pm
saw50st8 wrote:
If you read Squishy's posts, she thinks I'm psychologically scarring my son by taking him to the ladies room. Being in public spaces usually does mean passing somewhat uncomfortable situations. How many people complain about women openly nursing in public? We all make different choices for our families and if you can't function in a public space in ways that might be uncomfortable for you, then you need to stay home. The world is full of different cultures and attitudes and some may not agree with your worldview. That's OK too.


I function just fine thanks. Maybe your family should just stay home if they can't function In public restrooms respectfully.
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amother
Orchid


 

Post Wed, Jul 26 2017, 9:08 pm
I really dislike the stalls altogether. There should be private bathrooms with doors. I remember being uncomfortable in high school using the bathroom at school. Especially when it was crowded. Once I was really embarrassed when walking out of the stall to see a bunch of girls waiting right outside and I realized that my underwear was probably visible by the way I was sitting. I am on the self conscious side but still I think this would solve a lot of issues.
Shall we get a petition started?
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 26 2017, 9:26 pm
amother wrote:
I actually do take my son with me in my stall and have him turn around while I use the toilet. But if I'm with all of my (4) kids, I have my two older ones go into stalls themselves and I take the two younger ones with me in my stall.

He doesn't even have WHEN to look into other stalls because either he's peeing (while I am) or he's in there with me (taking turns).

Squishy, you still haven't answered the question of what is so bothersome about an 11 year old boy in the next stall over? Or in front of the sinks?


I have answered it several times in this thread. Modesty is compromised. The stalls are not totally enclosed. 11 year old boys find body functions humorous. Nursing mothers have no privacy. Those that need to purchase a tampon are forced to do it in front of boys. Women should not be forced to fix makeup or slips in front of boys in puberty or approaching puberty. Teen girls deserve privacy as well.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 26 2017, 9:34 pm
amother wrote:
I really dislike the stalls altogether. There should be private bathrooms with doors. I remember being uncomfortable in high school using the bathroom at school. Especially when it was crowded. Once I was really embarrassed when walking out of the stall to see a bunch of girls waiting right outside and I realized that my underwear was probably visible by the way I was sitting. I am on the self conscious side but still I think this would solve a lot of issues.
Shall we get a petition started?


I totally agree with you. Privacy is lacking in public rest rooms.

I had a secretary who could not urinate in a semi-public setting. I installed sound proofing on the toilet door because she had paruresis otherwise known as a shy bladder.
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causemommysaid




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 26 2017, 9:39 pm
marina wrote:
Can we all just agree that if we are okay with pre-puberty boys going into the women's bathroom, we are also all okay with medically-reversed-puberty born-male individuals going into the women's bathroom?

I just need one little show of unity on this thread. For all of klal yisroel.


I'm ok with it but what's a medically reversed puberty born male individual? My poor brain can't follow so many big words after 9 pm.
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ra_mom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 26 2017, 9:59 pm
marina wrote:
Can we all just agree that if we are okay with pre-puberty boys going into the women's bathroom, we are also all okay with medically-reversed-puberty born-male individuals going into the women's bathroom?

I just need one little show of unity on this thread. For all of klal yisroel.

Meaning they've already reached puberty and have had it medically reversed? Wink
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