Dating etiquette question.

mommy3b2c

Thu, Jul 27 2017, 10:58 pm

mame1 wrote:

I don't know what you're trying to say. I don't belong on the internet? Are you kicking me off the internet? I'm pretty sure the internet is a place to voice your opinion, and I seem to have one.

All this because I'm not willing to join the bandwagon in calling some presumably young boy vile names? I certainly don't revel in the fact that some boy is going to be shunned and never get a date again. I feel bad for the kid and I feel bad for his mother, and I hope she doesn't come on this website and see this.

Since I'm the only one that offered a differing opinion and I was called out as being the boy's mother and as raising a horrible son, I feel like it's not me that has difficulty in accepting other people's opinions. I accept that it might have happened like op said. If that's the case, then I accept that the boy could have been wrong. I also accept that it could have been an amicable, mutual rejection.

It's so confusing to me that you feel so as for "the kid" who humiliated a girl, but you don't feel bad for the girl who was rejected after ten minutes. I hope his mother is on here. Hopefully she can teach him some manners before he destroys his life.

amother

Saddlebrown

Thu, Jul 27 2017, 10:59 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

This is an online forum. We do not make up scenarios to give unknown people the benefit of the doubt. We base our responses on the information the op gives us.....

Well I think I missed the mishnah that says-

Dan et kol Adam bchav zechut chutz mehadam shekotev b'iternet.

Is it in perkei imahot or something?

mommy3b2c

Thu, Jul 27 2017, 11:14 pm

amother wrote:

Well I think I missed the mishnah that says-

Dan et kol Adam bchav zechut chutz mehadam shekotev b'iternet.

Is it in perkei imahot or something?

Correct. There is absolutely no obligation to be dan lkaf zechus a random, unknown person on the internet. For all we know the person doesn't exist. Op could have made the whole thing up. We were asked to give an opinion on a specific scenario. Not to be dan lkaf Zchus.

amother

Saddlebrown

Thu, Jul 27 2017, 11:22 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

That's an interesting perspective. Do you have a source for this?

mommy3b2c

Thu, Jul 27 2017, 11:25 pm

amother wrote:

That's an interesting perspective. Do you have a source for this?

First you give me the source that says we are obligated to give the benefit of the doubt to an anonymous person that we have no way of ever finding out who they are or if they actually even exist.

amother

Saddlebrown

Thu, Jul 27 2017, 11:39 pm

Perkei Avot Perek bet Mishnah Hey.

Kol Adam EVERY person

Now ok it's interpreted as the are various permutations and combinations where it doesn't apply, and I know I have no authority to pasken halacha from a single mishnah, but it IS a guiding principle we all try to live by, no?? So to me it's common sense that it applies in this type of forum which is only supposed to be made up of orthodox people who were discussing other orthodox people.

mommy3b2c

Thu, Jul 27 2017, 11:44 pm

amother wrote:

You know what else orthodox people are taught not to do?

Humilate others. It says that embarrassing someone is like killing them.

amother

Turquoise

Thu, Jul 27 2017, 11:45 pm

Sometimes you go on a date and it's clearly not for you. The right thing to do is to get to know the other person, and see if s/he is right for any of your friends.

Not every date has to lead to marriage. Some can lead to self discovery or to a refinement of your character.

trixx

Thu, Jul 27 2017, 11:51 pm

amother wrote:

what is humiliating about hearing "I don't date people who go to movies"... the young lady chooses to go to movies. She must know there is a large segment of the frum population that doesn't.

Bc if it got to the point where they were on a date, she assumed he knew and was OK with it. Someone really messed up on the research end.

The whole dlkz tangent is ridiculous.

amother

Periwinkle

Thu, Jul 27 2017, 11:53 pm

trixx wrote:

Bc if it got to the point where they were on a date, she assumed he knew and was OK with it. Someone really messed up on the research end.

The whole dlkz tangent is ridiculous.

so its humiliating because going to movies is a dirty little secret that some frum girls have?

amother

Saddlebrown

Thu, Jul 27 2017, 11:54 pm

amother wrote:

what is humiliating about hearing "I don't date people who go to movies"... the young lady chooses to go to movies. She must know there is a large segment of the frum population that doesn't.

I'm inclined to agree with this. We weren't there. But I can be DLKZ that the conversation went

She- did you see that great movie...
He-actually I don't go to movies
She - you don't go to movies???? I love movies
He- I don't think this is gonna work out
She- No, me neither
He- shall I take you home?
She - yes

No need to start calling people despicable or shaming their parents fur raising them badly.

And even if there is a halacha somewhere that it doesn't apply for anonymous people, when you are in conversation with an actual anonymous person (something that basically never happened before the internet, or at least the telephone) it is at LEAST good practice for IRL to be DLKZ anyways.

That does not preclude the idea that if you were mentoring the boy you might want to educate HIM on being DLKZ the girl, advising that as Hashem has gotten you in the situation where you are on a date with her even though you said you'd never date someone like this, you could perhaps at least take a couple of hours to find out why Hashem wanted you to meet her.

I honestly don't understand why everyone SEEMS to be getting so angry on this thread (maybe I'm misreading the vibes).

mommy3b2c

Fri, Jul 28 2017, 12:11 am

amother wrote:

what is humiliating about hearing "I don't date people who go to movies"... the young lady chooses to go to movies. She must know there is a large segment of the frum population that doesn't.

Are you for real?

The humiliating part was the part where she was brought home from a date after 20 minutes.

I really feel like I just stepped into bizarro world.

amother

Brown

Fri, Jul 28 2017, 12:38 am

It sounds like he was taught that dating is very businesslike. In a business meeting, you don't "continue to be polite" if it's not going to work out. You mutually agree that there is nothing to continue with, and politely leave.

Most of us see dating differently, as a social engagement that may lead to marriage. Leaving early in such a case is rude.

I don't think the boy is necessarily cruel, but does need some more education on the dating process.

MagentaYenta

Fri, Jul 28 2017, 12:43 am

amother wrote:

I wonder if his family knows that he is lacking certain social skills or that movies were a line in the sand he would not cross?

amother

Brown

Fri, Jul 28 2017, 12:49 am

MagentaYenta wrote:

I wonder if his family knows that he is lacking certain social skills or that movies were a line in the sand he would not cross?

Listen, the boy doesn't go to movies. I think we can assume he's a bit sheltered. Why would lack of understanding of the shidduch process = "lacking social skills"? It does indicate that whoever prepared him for dating did a lousy job.

MagentaYenta

Fri, Jul 28 2017, 12:52 am

amother wrote:

You tell me. I never said that.

ra_mom

Fri, Jul 28 2017, 12:59 am

Years ago, someone I know had already set up a date with a woman out of town when he found out a piece of information that made the meeting a waste of time. He could have easily canceled. But drove a whole day to get there. And took the lady on the date, had good time, and drove back home. Canceling the date would have hurt her. He asked a rav and was told to keep his commitment.