Dating etiquette question.

dancingqueen

Mon, Jul 31 2017, 11:06 am

amother wrote:

100% should be a mentch... also 100% think that he didn't realize that what he did wasn't mentchlike. He thought he did the right thing.

I think there is some space between despicable behavior and mentchlike behavior... and that's where he landed... this time..

Whether he realized it at the time or not, he did not act like a mentch on this date. Despicable is a very strong word no need to go there.

Chayalle

Mon, Jul 31 2017, 11:12 am

While I agree that despicable is a strong word, I would be wary of a young man in the dating parsha who is so clueless as to act this way. I would be afraid that it is indicative of something bigger - a certain rigidity in personality, if you will...and while my own daughters are looking for non-movie-goers, they would likely not want to date this young man. Most young men would have greater sensitivity to a young lady's feelings (I hope).

Then again, there's always room for growth, and if this young man really just committed a big faux pas and sees the error of his ways, he can certainly change and make amends....

amother

Jetblack

Mon, Jul 31 2017, 11:27 am

Ruchel wrote:

That's... strange. I had much longer good dates and bad dates. Much shorter good dates and bad dates. Some of my best dates with my husband were half day.

Later dates can be longer. But first dates in a shidduch dating scene are very regimented in time precisely to not hurt anyone's feelings and to be sensitive to the fact that it might be uncomfortable to speak for longer to a stranger. Also to give ppl time to digest what happened on the date. That's why it's 2.5-3 hours for a first shidduch date.

This way nobody is hurt when it's too short. Esp not the girl who might be hurt thatvhe found her unattractive etc. if he brought her home very early. Nobody trying to make conversation for too long. Nobody looking like he is really enjoying himself while the girl is bored out of her mind.

Later dates are longer. Hours. Half days. Etc. but not a first date. That by standard shidduch dating protocol is 2.5 - 3 hours.

amother

Jetblack

Mon, Jul 31 2017, 11:31 am

imasoftov wrote:

"I thought it was going well, but my date kept looking at the clock"

Not at all. Both sides know going in the timing of the date. The girls expect the guys to monitor the time. The boys are told by their mentors r mashgichim or friends before beginning to date how to check the time in a nice fashion. ( I e. Go to the bathroom. Put your watch down somewhere at the beginning of the date, put your alarm on vibrate before the date etc)

tigerwife

Mon, Jul 31 2017, 11:37 am

I'm all for a first date being short and casual, like just meeting for coffee (and is slowly becoming more prevalent in my shidduch-dating circles, albeit starting with more experienced daters). In heimish circles (not strictly chassidish), the first meeting is often a "bashau" where the boy comes to the girl's house for around 1/2 hour- 1 hour, which, while potentially awkward, also is helpful for DOAs or simply getting over the awkwardness of meeting someone for the first time.

Ruchel

Mon, Jul 31 2017, 12:29 pm

amother wrote:

I'm a shadchanit (well, ex). I set up many yeshivish people. There is nothing like this in my world. Even half an hour can be uncomfy with a stranger. Let everyone decide, they're going to get MARRIED!

Fox

Mon, Jul 31 2017, 1:41 pm

All three of my DDs are in shidduchim, and one actually had something slightly similar happen to her.

Prunella was redt to a boy, and everyone knew it was a bit of a long shot. However, there were certain elements of their personalities that were extremely complementary, so everyone wanted to give it a try.

They went out on a fairly typical first date of about 1 1/2 hours and both agreed to a second date. However, early on during the second date, the boy explained that while he liked Prunella a great deal, he felt that he would bring her down religiously, as he was not really committed to some of the same hashkafas. That date lasted maybe 45 minutes. I don't know exactly what he said, but he must have handled it charmingly, because Prunella regards him very fondly and subsequently suggested him for a friend. She actually found it sweet that he didn't hide behind the shadchan.

I'm not sure why I'm telling this story. Maybe to illustrate that we don't actually know that the girl was humiliated. As someone with a house overflowing with shidduch anxiety-fueled estrogen, I can tell you that it is absolutely impossible to guess what girls will considier utterly humiliating and what they'll find quirky and cute. I've long stopped guessing!

All that said, Chayalle is 100 percent right. My guess is that this guy was warned by his rebbeim not to "waste time" and not to engage in strictly social dating. He's taking that too literally. Can I guess that perhaps he doesn't have any sisters with whom he's close, either?

Yes, it could be that he needs an ABA therapist more than a wife. Or he could be clueless in the way that a lot of young men are clueless. Either way, he'll benefit from some more specific coaching than he's apparently received.

As for Prunella, she was far more aggravated by the boy who spent an hour interrogating her about why girls go to summer camp if they don't play team sports. I guess that was a make-or-break issue for him. Rolling Eyes

amother

Jetblack

Mon, Jul 31 2017, 2:22 pm

Fox wrote:

Fox,
The boy told your daughter HE would hold her back. This was complimentary to her. The op's nephew seems to have told the girl SHE would hold him back. That's insulting.

Fox

Mon, Jul 31 2017, 3:55 pm

amother wrote:

Fox,
The boy told your daughter HE would hold her back. This was complimentary to her. The op's nephew seems to have told the girl SHE would hold him back. That's insulting.

Whoops! Are you absolutely sure you want to make this point? Because it sounds as if you're suggesting that having more stringent hashkofos is "better."

I mean, I'm fine with that interpretation, but you definitely want to stay "amother" for something like that. LOL

Maybe what you mean is that he framed it in a way that made it seem complimentary. The bottom line was that their hashkafos weren't aligned -- same as the case brought by the OP.

And that's really at the core of why the young man in the OP's case needs coaching. Obviously, we all have certain litmus tests (no felony convictions; no current wife; no bodies buried in the basement; whatever). But I'm not sure that just telling the boy he has to spend 2 hours with a known movie-watcher is enough. I'm not saying he should change his stance on movies; just that he needs to learn that people are messy and complex, and that dating is more than just marking items off on a checklist.

amother

White

Mon, Jul 31 2017, 6:38 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

First you give me the source that says we are obligated to give the benefit of the doubt to an anonymous person that we have no way of ever finding out who they are or if they actually even exist.

I don't understand - why did you respond to OP's question, if you think she improvised the scenario, and the boy and girl don't exist?
wasn't it a waste of your precious time?