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-> Interesting Discussions
amother
Floralwhite
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Tue, Aug 01 2017, 3:17 pm
I'm thinking that after reading so many comments on Facebook, that for many people including myself, instead of genuinely thinking about all the sad things that has happened to us throughout history, many of us spend all day thinking about how hungry we are while still in pajamas. I think we would be far better equipped to mourn and watch sad videos, listen to lectures, if we could eat.
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mommy3b2c
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Tue, Aug 01 2017, 3:31 pm
True, but if we could eat, would we be watching sad videos and listening to lectures?
No. We would be going about our regular days.
I have thought about this. It's the fasting that forces us to even try and mourn. Otherwise we would just ignore it.
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chicco
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Tue, Aug 01 2017, 3:33 pm
Chazal didn't tell us to watch sad videos and go to lectures. They told us to fast.
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pause
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Tue, Aug 01 2017, 4:29 pm
chicco wrote: | Chazal didn't tell us to watch sad videos and go to lectures. They told us to fast. | They told us to be misabel, mourn, the churban beis hamikdash. They gave us guidelines for how to mourn. No, they didn't say to watch sad videos because there were none in those times. They did tell us not to be mayseeach da'as from aveilus. Men aren't allowed to learn Torah because Torah learning makes a person happy, only parts that deal with Jewish suffering or halachos of the day.
אבל מצווה ללמוד בדברים עצובים שעוסקים בפורענות ישראל וייסורי האדם, שהם מתאימים לעניינו של יום.
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amother
Goldenrod
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Tue, Aug 01 2017, 4:38 pm
mommy3b2c wrote: | True, but if we could eat, would we be watching sad videos and listening to lectures?
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Yes. That's exactly what I'm doing. (with a heter of course). OP I think for our generation your question makes a lot of sense.
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mommy3b2c
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Tue, Aug 01 2017, 5:25 pm
amother wrote: | Yes. That's exactly what I'm doing. (with a heter of course). OP I think for our generation your question makes a lot of sense. |
But it's only because the rest of the world is fasting. If no one fasted, the day would just be a regular day. I also didn't fast for the past two years, and I also tried to focus on the meaning of tisha bav, but if nobody fasted, that wouldn't be the case.
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PinkFridge
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Wed, Aug 02 2017, 9:16 am
I don't remember who says this, but I recently read this in Why We Weep that at first, all we needed as a people was one day of fasting, and that was Yom Kippur. The idea is to disassociate ourselves from our physical needs and spend the day on a spiritual level. But then we reached a point where it was not enough to get that taste of connection and heaven. To really connect us and move us, we needed a test of gehennom and that's what the mourning of Tisha B'Av is about
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amother
Goldenrod
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Wed, Aug 02 2017, 9:23 am
mommy3b2c wrote: | But it's only because the rest of the world is fasting. If no one fasted, the day would just be a regular day. I also didn't fast for the past two years, and I also tried to focus on the meaning of tisha bav, but if nobody fasted, that wouldn't be the case. |
I feel that the rabbi s are becoming more and more lenient as the generations get weaker and weaker.
Obviously the halacha is to fast, BUT I think, like yk and EVERY other day , the day itself has a certain character even if nobody fasted at all
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allthingsblue
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Wed, Aug 02 2017, 9:33 am
If you find yourself thinking of food, redirect your thoughts.
Personally, I read a book called crash course of Jewish history and read about horrific times for the Jewish people, when they were starving etc. so when I got hungry, I said, "wow, I'm hungry after less than 24 hours of fasting. Imagine what our poor brothers went through. How did they manage???"
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mommy3b2c
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Wed, Aug 02 2017, 9:48 am
allthingsblue wrote: | If you find yourself thinking of food, redirect your thoughts.
Personally, I read a book called crash course of Jewish history and read about horrific times for the Jewish people, when they were starving etc. so when I got hungry, I said, "wow, I'm hungry after less than 24 hours of fasting. Imagine what our poor brothers went through. How did they manage???" |
I think about this every tisha bav. I always read and watch things about the holocaust. For me that's how I mourn on tisha bav. As I lay there starving and weak I try to imagine their pain. It's unfathomable. Some of these people starved for 5+ years.
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amother
cornflower
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Wed, Aug 02 2017, 10:00 am
PinkFridge wrote: | I don't remember who says this, but I recently read this in Why We Weep that at first, all we needed as a people was one day of fasting, and that was Yom Kippur. The idea is to disassociate ourselves from our physical needs and spend the day on a spiritual level. But then we reached a point where it was not enough to get that taste of connection and heaven. To really connect us and move us, we needed a test of gehennom and that's what the mourning of Tisha B'Av is about |
Rabbi Leff just spoke about this! You can watch his tisha b'av video this year on youtube.
He said, YK was a day of pure gan eden. But now that we don't have a bhm"k, the brightness of the day dimmed for us. What makes a dim light seem bright? When you're coming in from blackness. Tisha b'av is the blackness, and makes YK feel bright in comparison.
What about the space of time between Tisha b'av and YK, doesn't that make it harder to compare the two days?
We begin preparing for Tisha b'av 21 days prior. After tisha b'av, we have 21 days to prepare for r"ch Elul. Then, a 40 day count-down until y"k. RH begins a 21 day count-down until the ultimate joy of simchas Torah.
It's all one long process, that begins with shiva asar b'tamuz and culminates with simchas Torah.
He also spoke about tears, different types of tears, the value of tears. When we couldn't cry properly, Yirmiyahu cried for us. The original tears--of the meraglim--was wrong because they thought Hashem wanted to hurt us. Hashem hides Himself but never wants to hurt us. The shechina cries for us too, like the mother bird that we send away when we do shiluach hakan.
Sorry there's a lot more and tons I'm leaving out....brain fog yesterday.
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CEF
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Wed, Aug 02 2017, 10:10 am
My experience this year gave me an insight into why it's good to fast.
On tisha b'av I expose myself to the terrible tragedies of the holocaust because it's a way that I can access my own feelings of sadness, loss and yearning.
If I focused on the destruction of the batei mikdash I simply wouldn't have as much emotions as I don't connect to it as well.
So, whilst I was listening to a shiur describing a terrible scene in Auschwitz, I thought to myself- that scene is SO off-putting there's no way I feel like eating right now! That story makes me feel sick to my stomach!
I worked out that I can't feel such intense emotions of grief and sadness whilst I am eating. So that's why it's helpful for me not to eat on tisha b'av.
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