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How do ppl afford it? Living in EY.
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Smile1234









  


Post  Mon, Aug 07 2017, 7:55 am
amother wrote:

Arnona is the monthly fee to upkeep the building and you must pay it. It's about 60₪ a month.



oh come on, you can't know this! It depends on the size of the apartment and what if any discounts are available.

(I know im nitpicking, but seriously...)
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amother




Yellow


Post  Mon, Aug 07 2017, 7:59 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
Ruchel every Israeli citizen gets a free burial plot if they are buried in their area. If they want to be buried elsewhere, then they have to pay, otherwise its free.

I know a couple that died a few months apart from my shul and they did not have the money to pay and they were ready not to bury the parents as long as they didnt have the 10k in their hands
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Karnash









  


Post  Mon, Aug 07 2017, 8:06 am
Blue, your post is very disturbing. You are only 21 but you seem to have accepted a very bleak future for you and your future children. What are you doing to better your situation? What is your plan? Are you investing in any sort of study to prepare yourself to bring in a better income? A plan of study does not have to be a 3 or 4 year university course, it can be a shaitel macher course, dressmaking, alterations, running a mishpachton....
The problem here is not Israel - it doesn't seem that you would be able to manage any other place - unless you do something to invest in your future. I'm sorry if this is coming across as harsh - I don't mean to be, and maybe you do have a plan, but it doesn't come across in what you have written.
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amother




Blue


Post  Mon, Aug 07 2017, 8:09 am
The average salary here is 7000 shekel. What exactly do you expect me and others to invest in? Take a course that will cost money we don't have to learn something that 50 other people in my neighborhood do....

I'm trying to pain an accurate picture of many people who live here. I'm not compliaing. I wouldn't give it up for the world, but this is reality for so many people
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baby12x









  


Post  Mon, Aug 07 2017, 8:10 am
Arnona= property tax
Vaad habayit= monthly upkeep fee

2 different things

Arnona is a government tax
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DrMom









  


Post  Mon, Aug 07 2017, 8:11 am
This is like the parable of the blind men and the elephant.

Everyone is describing the experiences of their own particular sub-community without any awareness or acknowledgement that other experiences exist for a substantial portion of the Israeli population.
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essie14









  


Post  Mon, Aug 07 2017, 9:40 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
Amother, I just want to point out that your situation and that of many others is not how ALL israelis live at all. I feel like I am going to get yelled at if I say this, but I will anyway. It is some of the charedi population that you are really talking about.

Personally, we have chicken at least 4 days out of the week.
No, not most people have kids sharing with that many siblings in one bedroom. That is NOT the norm here in Israel. I dont know one persona who has kids sleeping in the living room.
Shabbat outfits? I know people with way too many Wink and the men have just enough as well. Everyone I know has a smart phone and computers, yes plural sometimes.

So, while your living situation is not unheard of, there is a whole wider israel out there that others are living, not the one you mentioned, at all.

Agree. My children and their friends all have smartphones. No one I know has children sleeping in the living room.
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amother




Blue


Post  Mon, Aug 07 2017, 9:59 am
Sorry perhaps I didn't phrase this correctly. I saw some parts of this thread talking about how so many people have support and seem to live very nice lives and the OP was wondering how.. I know many people that have only 2 or 3 in a room, plenty of electronics, etc.

I was just trying to shed light into another part of the population that isn't always represented in the media or online. A lot of people DON'T have it easy... Sure a lot of people do. The people you describe I know plenty and so does everywhere else here, I was just trying to add that there are people who are really struggling in ways youay not imagine and you just don't know them
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amother




Blue


Post  Mon, Aug 07 2017, 10:06 am
Also all the people I know aren't actually in kollel. I'm taking about the husband working making between 6-10,000 shekel a month and mom is staying home or working part time
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amother




Blue


Post  Mon, Aug 07 2017, 10:12 am
Also like I said I lived in Ramat Beit Shemesh for a while... I saw a lot of struggling people like I am describing there. (not the bedroom part. But besides that) many families without cars,, meat, all their kids have only 2pairs of shoes (in some families when the girls get older they have a pair of black flats). When girls turn 15 or so a lot have to pay for all their clothing or offer to pay. Me and many of my friends were paying for everything even tights with our own money when we were 18.

I know all the sides, I know people you describe too with 4 floors and an indoor pool... And people in the middle too.
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imasoftov









  


Post  Mon, Aug 07 2017, 11:16 am
amother wrote:
Sorry perhaps I didn't phrase this correctly. I saw some parts of this thread talking about how so many people have support and seem to live very nice lives and the OP was wondering how.. I know many people that have only 2 or 3 in a room, plenty of electronics, etc.

I was just trying to shed light into another part of the population that isn't always represented in the media or online. A lot of people DON'T have it easy... Sure a lot of people do. The people you describe I know plenty and so does everywhere else here, I was just trying to add that there are people who are really struggling in ways youay not imagine and you just don't know them

Not going to design an experiment this time, but I'd like to know what proportion of people living above the poverty line (in Israel or elsewhere) owe it to support vs work.
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WastingTime









  


Post  Mon, Aug 07 2017, 11:45 am
like everything else in life, people's view of a situation is molded by their own experiences. I have been living in Israel for 15 yrs, and have friends and family in different communities.
Like everywhere in the world, there is a big socioeconomic range, within each community.

Most ppl I know I think are in the middle, they eat chicken - maybe not every night though, they look put together (unsure how many outfits they own), they have computers,etc. There are things like cars, which most of the kollel families I know don't have, although there are families who are obviously being supported that do. Vacations, some never go, some go away for a night or two in the summer to a tzimmer or something, and some have family flying them in to chul.

The list goes on and on of haves/not haves, but bottom line is if you have a decent job I think Israel is affordable , especially as tuition is a joke compared to America, and healthcare too (I.e. even "copay" to go to the regular doctor is a fraction what is is in the states)

Finding a job in Israel is another story of course- but that could be the case anywhere in the world.
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grace413









  


Post  Mon, Aug 07 2017, 1:21 pm
amother wrote:
I know a couple that died a few months apart from my shul and they did not have the money to pay and they were ready not to bury the parents as long as they didnt have the 10k in their hands


Not willing to believe this unless you confirm that the people were actual residents of Israel and willing to be buried in the municipality they lived in.
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shabbatiscoming









  


Post  Wed, Aug 09 2017, 5:35 am
amother wrote:
I know a couple that died a few months apart from my shul and they did not have the money to pay and they were ready not to bury the parents as long as they didnt have the 10k in their hands
Were the couple being buried in their municipal cemetery? Otherwise this makes no sense and has to be false.
Every person in Israel gets a free burial plot. If they dont want to be buried there thats a different story, but otherwise, you dont pay to be buried.
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amother




Mauve


Post  Wed, Aug 09 2017, 4:05 pm
I didn't read the whole thread but just can't resist chiming in with my personal experience (hope that's not too intrusive). In my experience it is possible to make do in Israel with a low budget. It will mean compromising on some material things but if you love living in Eretz Israel, it will make more than up for that. I came to Israel with something like 5000 USD and literally two suitcases. Went to live in an absorption center for the first year. It was then that I realized that in Israel "actually nobody starves". Basic needs are always met somehow and people are very willing to help. I got married, my dh also was financially on the weak side. Part of our wedding costs were taken over by friends and a very kind woman lent me her old wedding dress for the occasion. We live now in a settlement where housing costs are a lot lower than in Jerusalem or other central places. Our home is about 80 square meters and we have 3 children. Our combined income fluctuates around 8000 to 10000 NIS (2200 - 2700 $). We have a small car (necessary because I can't reach my job by bus and I'm afraid of "tremping" (hitchhiking). We eat rather simple during the week - almost no meat or chicken, lots of pasta or rice dishes and I buy second hand clothes for the children and partially for myself. My family (not in EY) often berate me for "having sunk so low" in terms of living standard. BUT I wanted to live here, I still want it and I'm not going back for the money. For me, spiritual satisfaction is part of my living standard and that's definitely higher here than anywhere else I've been. And the funny thing is, we constantly seem to spend more money than we earn but somehow ends always meet anyway. It's a bit like a financial Hanukkah miracle.
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amother




Saddlebrown


Post  Fri, Aug 11 2017, 7:29 am
amother wrote:
in Israel "actually nobody starves". Basic needs are always met somehow


True, true. They're met by going through the trash like those poor elderly people.
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treestump









  


Post  Fri, Aug 11 2017, 7:57 am
amother wrote:
True, true. They're met by going through the trash like those poor elderly people.


Yes unfortunately there are many people in Israel who do starve. This isn't specific to Israel - it happens in most countries, sadly - but not everyone's needs are met. I've seen too many homeless people and people foraging in trash cans here. Sad
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grace413









  


Post  Fri, Aug 11 2017, 9:52 am
treestump wrote:
Yes unfortunately there are many people in Israel who do starve. This isn't specific to Israel - it happens in most countries, sadly - but not everyone's needs are met. I've seen too many homeless people and people foraging in trash cans here. Sad


Some - not all - of these people refuse assistance. Most of those refusing have some kind of mental illness and cannot or will not be helped. Very tragic.

Here in MA there are private organizations as well as the social services department giving out food to people on a regular basis.

In Jerusalem there are many organizations providing free food to the indigent. One of these is Meir Panim and if anybody has any extra money to give to tzedaka they are a wonderful organization.
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