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S/O difference between DL Torani and Chardal
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etky









  


Post  Thu, Aug 10 2017, 2:01 pm
water_bear88 wrote:
I thought Chardak is a pejorative term. I don't know what those from Gush Katif who stopped supporting the state call themselves, but I'd be surprised if it's that.

I think Chardal, DL Torani, and more mainstream or leftwing DL will all call themselves DL because the two basic requirements are (A) shomer Torah umitzvot and (B) supporting the state including the army. The terms we're trying to hash out here are subgroups within DL. It's like how I didn't like any of the options in the "what subgroup of Orthodox are you" a few months ago because I don't care to choose between "RW MO" and LW MO". I'll call myself MO, but I don't care to use a more precise term.


It is!
It's an acronym that charedim use to describe charedi boys who join the army.
It's an amalgamation of the words charedi and charak (insect) and also evokes the word chaydak (germ). It's a horrible term....
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etky









  


Post  Thu, Aug 10 2017, 2:03 pm
Health is a Virture wrote:
chardak (I believe that is what they call theitmselves, but I could be mistaken) is something different from chardal. Chardak is something that was created after the whole gush katif thing---some daati leumi Torani (many living in the shtachim) were very upset with the government and so they started to be anti-army/government. Merkaz harav is daati leumi Torani. Chardal is an American thing---have only heard this word to be used by Americans. Yes, ask your neighbors what they are---most will say daati leumi I presume. My husband learned in Mevaseret, Merkaz Harav is Daati Leumi, as well as is R' Aviner, R' Cohen, etc.... I am not sure where you are getting your information. I would love if you would ask your neighbors what they consider themselves as.


Where on earth did you get that idea?
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water_bear88









  


Post  Thu, Aug 10 2017, 2:16 pm
etky wrote:
Where on earth did you get that idea?

Thanks for picking up on that point- I've read Harav Eliyahu explicitly define himself as Chardal, and he's not at all American to the best of my knowledge. (His father, ז"ל, was the Chief Sefardi Rav of Israel at one point and had fought in the siege of Yerushalayim in '48.)
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BadTichelDay









  


Post  Thu, Aug 10 2017, 3:58 pm
@Health is a Virtue and @water_bear88, chardak is a pejorative term and definitely not the same as chardal. "Chardak" is an acronym of chareidi daat kal, meaning sort of light weight chareidi. It sounds (deliberately) similar to the Hebrew word chayidak (germ, bacteria) and is used as an insult for chareidi youngsters who go to serve in the army. It is used by radical anti-zionist chareidi groups in order to discourage chareidi enlistment in the army. "Chardal" is the acronym for chareidi-dati-leumi, as in chareidi-national-religious.
edit: didn't see it before, @etky already mentioned this above
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amother




Lilac


Post  Thu, Aug 10 2017, 4:31 pm
I live basically across the street from Merkaz HaRav - Chardal really is an Israeli thing. Kiryat Moshe does have a fair amount of Americans who are in that in between space of American Yeshivish, and they send their kids to chardal schools generally, but some to Dati Torani schools. But I don't know if they would call themselves chardal or something else, but I know a lot of them specifically do not identify as Dati Leumi or even Dati Torani.
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BadTichelDay









  


Post  Thu, Aug 10 2017, 4:39 pm
Just for the heck of it, I've decided to have a little poll on it and have sent messages to an Anglo neighbor, a neighbor of Russian extraction, a born Israeli former neighbor and my Anglo SIL. I asked them how they define themselves - 1- Mainstream DL, 2- Dati Leumi Torani or 3- Chardal or 4-
something totally different.
While I define myself as middle of the road DL with Anglo flavor, they all are in one way or another more "intense" than I am.
The Anglo neighbor is frummer than me, the Russian neighbor is more passionate about everything, the Israeli friend is in her hashkafa not all that far away from the hilltop youth and I think she has a kabbalistic touch and my SIL I would define as urban DL with a slight chareidi touch. Let's see what they say about themselves (if they answer)
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amother




Bronze


Post  Fri, Aug 11 2017, 6:24 pm
LovesHashem wrote:
I am chareidi, I have internet, there is somewhat of a secular education, and my husband is in no way, shape, or from learning forever


For you and your husband, of course. But what of your children? It's manageable for olim, but their children often end up as regular Israeli chareidim.
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