Trump's remarks | Imamother

WhatFor

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 7:27 pm

Fox wrote:

What evidence do you have that Nazism is growing?

Why do you fear Nazism and white supremacists more than Antifa?

Where is your evidence that white supremacists are "invigorated" in any meaningful way?

Why do you want to delegitimize the experiences of people who are familiar with leftist anti-Semitism?

I have no idea of your motives. I only know that you are consistently the individual who starts these threads. This is not a one-time thing. This is not about what happened in Charlottesville. You start these threads every month or two. Now you are positing made-up theories about why some people are equally disturbed by Nazis and Antifa -- this after admitting that you're not familiar with Antifa.

https://www.google.com/amp/for...../amp/

Amarante

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 7:28 pm

If you're use not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Which side are you in?

This is a 22 minut documentary on the white supremacists attending the march. In their own charming words

https://www.vox.com/identities.....-vice

If there was any doubt about what kind of person went to protest in Charlottesville, Virginia, over the weekend, Vice News’s documentary should put those questions to rest: One side was white supremacists, some of whom openly endorsed violence.
The documentary, posted online on Monday, follows a group of white supremacists, led by white nationalist Chris Cantwell, as they march and protest through Charlottesville — purportedly to stand against the city’s plans to take down Confederate monuments, but really to spread a message of white supremacy.
Here are a few quotes from the white supremacist protests and participants, made up of members of the Ku Klux Klan, neo-Nazis, and white nationalists:
* “Jews will not replace us! Jews will not replace us! Jews will not replace us!”
* “When the Trayvon Martin case happened, Michael Brown, Tamir Rice, and all these different things happened, every single case it’s some little black ******* behaving like a savage, and he gets himself in trouble, shockingly enough. Whatever problems I might have with my fellow white people, they generally are not inclined to such behavior — and, you know, you gotta kinda take that into consideration when you’re thinking about how to organize your society.”
* “This city is run by Jewish communists and criminal n*****s! That’s exactly what it is.” “And that’s true, by the way.”
* “We didn’t aggress. We did not initiate force against anybody. We’re not nonviolent. We’ll ******* kill these people if we have to.”
* “Right now we have people on the ground at the statue with equipment, and they’re being told they’re not allowed to have a vehicle come through and pick them up or anybody come and pick them up. I’m about to send at least 200 people with guns to go get them out if you guys do not get our people out.”
* The car attack by a Nazi sympathizer on counter-protesters, which killed 32-year-old Heather Heyer, “was more than justified. The amount of restraint that our people showed out there, I think, was outstanding.”
* “I think a lot more people are going to die before we’re done here, frankly. … People die violent deaths all the time. This is part of the reason we want an ethno-state. The blacks are killing each other in staggering numbers from coast to coast. We don’t really want to have a part of that anymore.”

Jeanette

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 7:44 pm

Fox wrote:

Let's be honest: this thread isn't really about Nazis, white supremacists, or Antifa. It's about your dislike of President Trump. You've started multiple threads since the election on similar topics, each with the primary thesis, "Isn't he awful?"

I think we've all gotten the message: you dislike Trump intensely and are vigilant for examples of his awfulness.

I was personally not pleased with some of Trump's comments. I think "good people" on both sides went home rather than allying themselves with loathesome demonstrators on either side. However, I also don't believe his comments revealed any hidden endorsement of white supremacy, however much the Nazis and Klan would like to claim that they did.

But I do believe Trump is right about one thing: I don't think there is anything he could have said or done that would have satisfied people who hate him. Immediately opening up a DOJ case didn't appease anyone. Repeatedly disavowing white supremacists didn't appease anyone -- though I can't imagine why he should pander to the left's conspiracy theories in the first place. Being careful not to make statements that contradict the legal definition of "terrorism" didn't impress anyone.

So what would it have taken? What response from the Trump administration would have made you say, "Huh. He handled that surprisingly well"?

Hmmm, let's see.

He could have NOT retweeted an image of the trump train mowing down a CNN reporter.

He could have NOT tweeted that the "truly bad people" are journalists.

He could have spared a single one of his signature insults (weak! bad! nasty! sick! failing!) for the truly evil among us. But no, suddenly he decides to be all measured and even-handed.

Maybe just maybe, if he had nothing intelligent to add, he could have at least refrained from further inflaming an already volatile situation.

Fox

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 7:48 pm

WhatFor wrote:

https://www.google.com/amp/foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/14/fbi-and-dhs-warned-of-growing-threat-from-white-supremacists-months-ago/amp/

These are statistics from 2000-2016. So it would seem that white supremacists were doing fine without Trump . . .

Again, we can disagree about the long-term threat of neo-Nazis versus liberal arts-educated college graduates steeped in the anti-Semitic tropes of cultural Marxism. But I would never, ever claim that neo-Nazis are harmless, and it disturbs me that so many Jews are determined to dismiss any threat that isn't dressed in a white hood, carrying a swastika.

Jeanette

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 7:58 pm

Fox wrote:

Really? Which reporter? As a matter of fact, it was not "a CNN reporter" -- it was the corporate symbol of CNN. The original cartoon had a donkey, representing the Democratic Party, attempting to impede the "Trump Train." Was that a threat against every registered Democrat. No, it was not. Don't make things up.

Thanks for clarifying.

That makes it a completely appropriate response for the president of the United States to a crime that involved running over a protester.

Fox

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 8:00 pm

Amarante wrote:

If you're use not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Which side are you in?

Not that I don't appreciate unattributed Eldridge Cleaver quotes, but you've identified the problem perfectly: Which side am I on? Neither. I am vehemently against both neo-Nazis/white supremacists and Antifa.

That's like asking someone, "Which are you in favor of -- bubonic plague or tuberculosis?" Um, no.

Minimizing Antifa doesn't prove you really, really hate Nazis. It just proves that you're easily duped by anti-Semites who don't advertise their convictions.

Amarante

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 8:11 pm

Charlottesville’s Jewish community was forced to hire security after local police denied worshipers of synagogue protection from neo-Nazis during the violent weekend that claimed the life of a woman.

Alan Zimmerman, president of Congregation Beth Israel, described the fear he had when he saw three men armed with rifles outside the synagogue, he wrote in a blog post published Monday.

There were also “parades of Nazis” outside pointing at the temple and chanting “Seig Heil” while white supremacists carried “flags with swastikas and other Nazi symbols,” Zimmerman wrote.

When morning services ended, Zimmerman advised worshipers to exit through the back door for safety.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new.....17487

His full blog post of event on Saturday as viewed from his shut

http://reformjudaism.org/blog/.....esses

Fox

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 8:17 pm

Jeanette wrote:

You specifically asked if there was anything he could have done that would have quelled criticism. Refraining from tweeting hilarious "jokes" might have been one.

There's no reason to believe it was done in response to the tragedy in Charlottesville, and he deleted the tweet when it was pointed out that it might be misinterpreted. So what is it you want? An office of meme management that carefully scrutinizes any memes that are passed along by the President? Given your posts on the topic of the President over the months, I find it hard to believe that his abandoning Twitter would open your mind in the slightest.

Jeanette

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 8:23 pm

Fox wrote:

Is this the standard you expect from a president now? Send out an incendiary tweet in the immediate aftermath of a tragedy and then delete only after a public outcry? Yeah, sure, let's heap praise on him for deleting it.

Funny, this is the second time this thread you used an ad hominem to deflect criticism of the president. Maybe your case isn't as strong as you think.

sushilover

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 8:26 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

The Republicans referred to Jeremy Wright as a race baiter and hate monger. Sadly, Trump will not do the same of the Nazis. Obama also denounced Wright. “I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue.” It was possible to condemn Wright and still support Obama.

Trump's Chief Strategist proudly declared that he published was "the platform for the alt-right," and proudly celebrated white supremacists. Not only has Trump not denounced him, he continues as Trump's chief strategist.

Trump himself was one of the chief proponents of the racist birther movement. He hasn't denounced it.

Trump gave press credentials to Info Wars (Alex Jones). The guy who claims that there weren't Nazis in Charlottesville, just Jewish actors. Who claimed the Sandy Hook massacre was also actors, and harassed people who lost their babies. Who claims that Israel was actually behind 9/11. Because CNN and the NY Times are "fake news," but Info Wars is apparently fine and dandy.

During the 2016 campaign, Trump attacked a federal judge who had prosecuted drug traffickers in a previous job by calling him "Mexican" (he was born in Indiana, but of Mexican heritage) and suggesting that he was sympathetic to Mexican cartels; asserted that Mexican immigrants are disproportionately likely to commit rapes; defended the internment of Japanese Americans during WWII (“I would have had to be there at the time to tell you, to give you a proper answer ... I certainly hate the concept of it. But I would have had to be there at the time to give you a proper answer.”); reiterated his belief that the Central Park Five are guilty despite their having been legally exonerated; and approvingly repeated an apocryphal story about an American officer putting down an insurrection in the Philippines by executing Muslims using bullets dipped in pigs' blood.

There's just no equivalence here.

I too, am disgusted by many of the things you listed. Some more than others, of course.
But that doesn't mean condemning antifa makes me a nazi sympathizer.

Fox

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 8:27 pm

Jeanette wrote:

I have absolutely no idea what you mean. The standards for Presidential behavior plummeted two decades ago. That horse has not only left the barn but has trotted down the road.

I'm not deflecting criticism. Criticize away. Just don't make things up.