Trump's remarks | Imamother

Fox

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 8:45 pm

Jeanette wrote:

Pretty lame attempt at spinning away the president's bizarre and inflammatory tweet. In what world is that even remotely appropriate in the wake of a tragedy? Pivoting to Bill Clinton? Seriously?

You brought up "standards" for Presidential behavior, and I responded.

The tweet wasn't appropriate. That's why he deleted it. You seem to have some old-fashioned idea of behavior that you consider "presidential." I'm not sure what that means -- your examples have basically been that he shouldn't use Twitter.

But we've digressed. You find Trump awful, and I find him okay most of the time. You are offended by his tweets. I am generally not. You find his humor offensive. I generally do not.

However, none of this makes me a Nazi sympathizer nor an Antifa sympathizer.

Jeanette

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 8:49 pm

Fox wrote:

I don't remember accusing you of being a Nazi sympathizer or otherwise. I do believe that Trump is a Nazi sympathizer.

Trump seems to forget that he's president of all americans, not just those who voted for him. I only wish we could all forget.

Jeanette

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 9:38 pm

Amarante wrote:

Charlottesville’s Jewish community was forced to hire security after local police denied worshipers of synagogue protection from neo-Nazis during the violent weekend that claimed the life of a woman.

Alan Zimmerman, president of Congregation Beth Israel, described the fear he had when he saw three men armed with rifles outside the synagogue, he wrote in a blog post published Monday.

There were also “parades of Nazis” outside pointing at the temple and chanting “Seig Heil” while white supremacists carried “flags with swastikas and other Nazi symbols,” Zimmerman wrote.

When morning services ended, Zimmerman advised worshipers to exit through the back door for safety.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new.....17487

His full blog post of event on Saturday as viewed from his shut

http://reformjudaism.org/blog/.....esses

But antifa brought sticks. Move on, nothing to see here.

Jeanette

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 9:44 pm

sushilover wrote:

Had they simply protested, I would applaud them. But antifa does not protest. They use militant protest tactics.
watch a few videos of the protest. The violence was not one-sided.

Someone asked if I would "change the topic" if it were Palestinians vs. Israelis. If an Israeli movement (maybe Hilltop Youth? I don't know too much about them..) were using violence, calling for the Palestinians to be beaten, and actually beating them while the Palestinians had some despicable and violent march, I would condemn both sides for violence. Wouldn't you?
And no that wouldn't make me a Palestinian apologist.

Okay let's unpack this a bit.

When Trump rhapsodizes at rallies about the beautiful women killed by illegals and Muslims, should he also condemn murders by white Americans? What about when he pounces on an act of terror to call for a ban on all Muslims entering the US? Is that also a good opportunity to point out that there's violence on both sides? Or only when neo-nazis do it?

sushilover

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 9:51 pm

Jeanette wrote:

But antifa brought sticks. Move on, nothing to see here.

1) they brought sticks and masks and molotov cocktails and tear gas and their violent ideology which states that if you say something I find hateful, I have the right to beat you.
2) no one, I repeat NO ONE on the right of this conversation is saying 'nothing to see here' or minimizing white nationalist garbage. I truly resent the strawmanning going on here.

MagentaYenta

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 9:55 pm

sushilover wrote:

so not only do you refuse to condemn antifa, you actually view them as heros akin to ww2 soldiers?

WoW that was from left field, but no I'm not gonna condemn the antifas. Do I view them akin to my family members lost at Dunkirk or the ones who helped liberate a concentration camp? I hope to he!! they help prevent another atrocity like we saw in WW2.

Do me a favor, don't bother twisting my words, English is my first language and it's really a limp argument when you have to resort to such a technique.

sushilover

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 10:01 pm

Jeanette wrote:

When it's a 2- sided fight? YES!

I was asked if my reaction would be different if it were Israelis vs Palestinians. And I say, in such a situation , YES!

Suppose a group of Palestinians organized a hate-filled march with weapons and shields in the middle of Manhattan. Then a group of Israelis who are part of a violent, anarchist movement who say "anyone who so much as waves a Pal. flag will be beaten" counter protest, and come with weapons and faces covered. Violence predictably ensues and a counter protester(who was probably not involved in the anarchist movement) is tragically killed.

Would I condemn both sides? YES!

Jeanette

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 10:02 pm

sushilover wrote:

Only one group was menacing a synagogue with rifles.

Let's reverse this. Antifa goons are menacing a synagogue with rifles. Neo-nazis chase them away with sticks and tear gas. Who do you condemn?

sushilover

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 10:04 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

How did I twist your words? You don't condemn them and you think they can prevent WW2. In what way did I misrepresent you?

fmt4

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 10:08 pm

sushilover wrote:

Are you saying that there are people who wouldn't find what these neo- Nazis say hateful? If you watch the video on vice, these people are saying very clearly that anyone who is not white should be removed from this country, violently if need be.
This is not a matter of opinion, this is not about people expressing their views. This is hate speech, incitement to violence. These people organized a rally to protest the right of many of those counter protesters to EXIST in this country.

Jeanette

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 10:09 pm

sushilover wrote:

This isn't theoretical. I am asking for your response to specific Trump talking points and actions that appear mighty one-sided (except neo-nazis are not involved). Where is the balance and moderation?

sushilover

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 10:17 pm

Jeanette wrote:

Only one group was menacing a synagogue with rifles.

Let's reverse this. Antifa goons are menacing a synagogue with rifles. Neo-nazis chase them away with sticks and tear gas. Who do you condemn?

Antifa came for violence. They believe in violence as much as the white supremacists do. I condemn violence. I condemn movements which states explicitly that they will counter hate speech with violence. I condemn movements who counter MAGA hats with violence.
Antifa was not just there to protect synagogues. They were there to physically attack people whose ideology they opposed. If that's something you applaud, we are in a dangerous place.

Last edited by sushilover on Wed, Aug 16 2017, 10:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

sushilover

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 10:21 pm

fmt4 wrote:

I do find it hateful. But I cannot condone using physical violence against someone saying something hateful.
Hate speech is free speech.
If they were actually inciting violence, then use the power of the law to crack down as strongly as possible. Not lawless violence.

sushilover

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 10:23 pm

Jeanette wrote:

I don't think "balance and moderation" are good words to describe our president. But I condemned him in my first post in this conversation already. I'm still waiting for a leftist here to condemn the violent ideology of antifa.

Jeanette

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 10:27 pm

sushilover wrote:

I agree we are on a dangerous place.

Amarante

Thu, Aug 17 2017, 12:36 am

Statement by the Rsbbinical Council of America. No moral equivalency

The largest body of Orthodox rabbis in the United States released a statement on Wednesday condemning President Trump’s continued comparisons between white supremacist marchers and counter-protestors in Charlottesville, Va.

“There is no moral comparison,” the president of the Rabbinical Council of America, Rabbi Elazar Muskin, said in a statement. “Failure to unequivocally reject hatred and bias is a failing of moral leadership and fans the flames of intolerance and chauvinism. While as a rabbinic organization we prefer to address issues and not personalities, this situation rises above partisan politics and therefore we are taking the unusual approach to directly comment on the words of the President.”

RCA executive vice president Rabbi Mark Dratch added that their group “call[s] on President Trump to understand the critical consequences of his words. We call on all the leaders of our country to denounce all groups who incite hate, bigotry and racism, while taking action and using language that will heal the terrible national wounds of Charlottesville.”

33055

Thu, Aug 17 2017, 7:11 am

sushilover wrote:

Balance and moderation are not good words to describe the left either. With rare exceptions, will you find the left condemning anything on their side.

The left goes way too far for my comfort getting rid of statutes of fallen soldiers and demanding TR statutes be removed and streets be renamed. It is not enough to remove the statutes; they must be obliterated. And they go way too far for the comfort of millions of decent people who don't like their radical social engineering and revisionist history. Yes, you can be a decent person and be against the left.

The left is providing the rallying point for the white supremacists. But they are also providing sympathy and support for the positions the white supremacists are taking like to stop tearing down history. They propelled our president into power.

BTW, segregation is part of our history. What wouldn't be desirable and acceptable to erect today is still part of our heritage. Three separate posters thought they needed to mention to me when the statutes were erected. I knew that before my first post on this thread. Two of them mentioned it after I acknowledged it. Only Fox understands the context of why the statutes were erected. She also understands the nuances and complexity of General Lee.

I can't understand the folks on the left whose intellect doesn't allow them to acknowledge complexity. They also need to study history to see that when the radical left alienates the middle, those folks will go to the right time and time again. The German Workers Party did not rise in a vacuum.

Millions of decent folks support causes espoused by the right, but this doesn't mean they support the right. I am against the left stifling free speech and trying to delegitamize our elected president. I am against radical social engineering. And so are millions of decent Americans.

fmt4

Thu, Aug 17 2017, 8:06 am

sushilover wrote:

Unfortunately the police weren't everywhere. A lot of people said that antifa defended them from violent Nazis.
https://www.google.com/amp/amp......html
Im not saying that some of them may not be violent. But in this case they were the ones protecting synagogues and churches when the police were not.
And they are not going around saying that certain races do not deserve to be a part of this country.