Baltimore Mikvah more than doubled in price

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mamaleh

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 11:43 pm

amother wrote:

Mamaleh, please tell me this the main Lakewood mikva on Madison. That's the one I use, and I never would have thought I can go and not pay, or not pay full price. I still don't know if I would actually be able to get myself to tell them I don't have the money, but the way things are going I might not have a choice soon.

Yes, main Mikva on Madison. I never would have thought to do it either. They were really SUPER nice and chilled about it.

pause

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 11:45 pm

seeker wrote:

Ummm seriously? Kids do not know that a mikvah exists? In my community where I grew up the mikvah fundraisers were a huge deal. None of us needed any TMI on what was actually done in a mikvah.

My kids have asked about mikvah buildings we've passed on the street and I have explained to them that there are certain mitzvos grownups can do there. They haven't probed for many details yet but I'm comfortable enough putting them off when they do, with something like "it's a grownup topic, we'll talk about it later." They know about tevilas keilim but I've also made it clear enough that that's not the only thing that can be done at a mikvah. I think I said something like "for example, when we had to dip our new pots into water? So that's one kind of mitzvah. And other stuff like that." and they were fine. For all I know they're thinking it's some secret special place where people gather around a table and give tzedakah or something, they don't have such a huge frame of reference for "doing mitzvos." but as a concept, it works.

I really shouldn't hijack... carry on...

I don't get this either. An ad wouldn't have to be explicit by saying: "To all you ladies out there who are niddos and will be using the mikva to toivel themselves after an intense chafifa session and being checked by the mikva lady in order to become kosher to your husbands, we'd like to announce that the monthly fee which you will pay approximately 12-14 days after the start of your period will be raised from $12 to $25."

A simple ad with the mikva's letterhead stating: "Due to greater expenses and maintenance costs, we will be raising our fee to $25." Whoever it's shayach to will see it. If a child questions it, a mother can play dumb if she so desires.

mamaleh

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 11:47 pm

seeker wrote:

That was exactly the point. Kids know about tevilas kailim (no fee) and men's Mikva (minimal fee, if that) but an ad that says Mikva fee is going up to $18 would raise questions. Many people don't want to say (and many kids won't accept) that it's an adult issue.

amother

Azure

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 11:49 pm

I just want to say to those who are saying that it would have been weird/inappropriate to put out an ad warning of the rate increase :When they were asking for donations there were ads put out about the donation campaign. So it may have just been an overlook, but I don't think it was done intentionally because of not wanting to mention the mikvah in community magazines/flyers.

pause

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 11:51 pm

mamaleh wrote:

Do kids know how much men pay to be toivel? I had no idea until I was married. In fact some men mikvaos here have that you can pay a monthly or annual membership and then you show or swipe your card to get in. So for all you know the price in the ad is about the monthly men's membership. Confused

It can be worded very ambiguously. And again, this is only for those children who will ask their parents and whose parents don't want to tell them anything at all.

seeker

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 12:10 am

mamaleh wrote:

Any kid who knows enough to keep track of fees for keilim or men's mikvah is old enough to not have any problem with an ad about mikvah... I don't know, when I was a kid I don't think I had any idea what my parents paid for most things in life...

I'm trying to picture my kids, or for that matter myself as a kid, paying enough attention to an ad like that to say "Mom, why does it say the mikvah fee is going up? I don't remember you paying when we went to dip our new knife." I think I'd probably say something like "mmm?" or "hmm" and the conversation would move on very quickly because how interesting can an ad like that possibly be?

Amarante

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 12:33 am

Just a thought - the fancy stuff that you mention might have been a minimal cost in terms of the total budget for whatever was necessary for the renovation.

My building recently renovated and did two bathrooms and the cost for tile and counters was a very small item. Presumably we are not talking about rare marble. And the chandeliers in our lobby which we replaced were also relatively inexpensive as a percentage of the total budget. It was other stuff that drove up costs which might have been true with the mikvah renovation. If the showers were rusty, there might have been costly problems with plumbing (for example) that you weren't aware of.

What also might not be apparent is how the cost of utilities has really escalated in the past few years. I say this again because I am acutely aware of the cost of utilities for the budget in my building. Heating, water, cooling, electrical are all significantly more costly than before.

I understand that it is sticker shot but the price itself seems to reflect the cost of what of mikvah is averaged in communities. I imagine that the management decided to run the figures when the mikvah renovation was done and realized that it was running at a significant loss at $12

DrMom

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 8:34 am

There's really only one mikvah facility serving all the Jews of Baltimore?

PinkFridge

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 8:47 am

mamaleh wrote:

Send a letter to everyone in the community phone book(s). Yes, mailings cost, but I think it's a justifiable expense.

allthingsblue

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 8:47 am

mamaleh wrote:

A couple of points based on my experience (in Lkwd):

1. I remember when Lakewood raised the fees. I asked why it hadn't been publicized (there was a message on the system when you called to make an appt but it was easy to not hear it if you already knew which buttons to press). I was told that they had a problem with any form of advertising because kids read everything.
Many parents don't tell their kids about Mikva (there was a long thread about what to tell when so I won't discuss it) and any ad about a change in price would cause way too many questions. How would someone explain to the kids what the Mikva fee was for. I didn't love not knowing in advance, but I understood.

2. There was a time period where we just didn't have the money. One month (toward the beginning of that time) I almost didn't go because by the time my DH found someone to borrow from, I was running late. I came in and the Mikva lady (who's known me-through the Mikva- for years) asked me if I was ok. I told her I almost didn't come because DH was late getting home with the $ (didn't tell her it was borrowed). She told me that I should NEVER not come because of $. The next time we just didn't have it. I told her I didn't have $. No problem. The phone system will tell you how much you owe, but the ladies NEVER say anything. When I said I felt bad about owing, they told me that there are people who owe 100s of dollars and they will never be turned away.

So, while the lack of notice is annoying, it might not have been avoidable and just like most Mikva ladies are trained to be sensitive about body issues, etc, they are also generally sensitive about financial issues as well, and they WANT you to come to the Mikva so they will do their best to make you comfortable.

We're talking about Baltimore, not Lakewood Smile

I can't imagine people in Baltimore are scared of their kids seeing an ad.

amother

Papaya

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 10:10 am

Mikva in Chicago charges $23 and I know that they will accept anything that one can afford. The ladies don't even look at the check I hand them. I could have written $5 and they wouldn't say a word.
I know that the Mikva runs a large deficit every year and the $23 fee does not cover the costs. They still need to do fundraising to cover the costs of normal maintenance and functioning.

amother

Pink

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 11:54 am

DrMom wrote:

There's really only one mikvah facility serving all the Jews of Baltimore?

There are a couple Shabbos mikvahs around and one very small chabad mikvah that is by appointment only and costs $36 but lots of people don't use the chabad one because I think their halachos are different. For all intents and purposes yes there is only one mikvah servicing the entire community.

amother

Pink

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 11:56 am

allthingsblue wrote:

We're talking about Baltimore, not Lakewood Smile

I can't imagine people in Baltimore are scared of their kids seeing an ad.

no one cares in Baltimore. There were huge ads and mailings that went out before the expansion.

allthingsblue

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 12:00 pm

amother wrote:

no one cares in Baltimore. There were huge ads and mailings that went out before the expansion.

That's what I thought.
(I personally cannot understand why we have to go to extremes to hide all evidence of taharas hamishpacha from our children...)

amother

Tan

Wed, Aug 16 2017, 3:03 pm

mamaleh wrote:

Yes, main Mikva on Madison. I never would have thought to do it either. They were really SUPER nice and chilled about it.

I was once in that mikvah and realized I left my checkbook at home. I asked them if they accepted credit cards (I didn't have cash), and they told me right away, "don't worry, pay next time."

So you can probably say something like "I don't have money on me right now, can I pay later?" without going into your financial status.

little_mage

Thu, Aug 17 2017, 11:27 am

We're in an in-between mikvah situation right now. A new one is being built, but hasn't opened yet, and the old one has closed. So the usable one is the former Shabbat one in the shul. I went on Monday, and paid $25, having to bring my own towels and robe and do all prep at home. It's a reasonable amount.

amother

Lilac

Thu, Aug 17 2017, 1:15 pm

amother wrote:

Baltimore always had a thing for keeping it's community mikvah on the cheaper end. I'm sad to see that this policy changed. It was one of the ways we were still an out of town community.

I've been waiting for more comments on this quote from the OP. Since there were only a couple of responses and they were included with other remarks, I'm focusing solely on the idea that OOT communities charge less than major cities. I don't know why the OP thinks it's true OOT communities charge less.

I've lived in multiple OOT places. Mikva costs have ranged from $10 (which eventually went up to $18) to $36, with a couple prices in between. In a city with a smaller frum population, fewer people go to the mikva and therefore the cost may be higher in order to maintain the mikva.

In one very small OOT community, a coffee can was on a table in the waiting area. There was a sign that the suggested donation was $18, but whatever people put in the coffee can was fine. I still think that's the best method of collection. Why embarrass people?

Wherever I've gone to an OOT kalim mivka, there's always been a pushka for mikva donations. I'm surprised people have said it's free where they live.

amother

Firebrick

Tue, Sep 05 2017, 8:15 pm

I'm glad I saw this thread, because I wasn't aware of the increase, and would have been taken aback the next time I go. (B"H, for good reasons, haven't been in a while, and probably won't need to for a while...) My initial reaction (before reading through the posts) was they should have announced it, then wondered (to myself) how they would have done that, because other than the expansion/donation campaign, the mikvah (as nice as it is, and presumably even nicer now) keeps a very low profile.

I came to Baltimore as a single girl, lived right near it, and had NO idea where it was as a kallah. If I had grown up here, I probably would have known (not exactly the naive type), but every time I pass it, I think to myself - how could I not have even realized??? That being said, I imagine (based on the response from the board member) the decision to raise the fees probably happened long after the ad campaign for donations, and they probably didn't want to run a new ad... Throwing in a line about raising the fees would have been simple enough. Mailing campaign would probably have been a good idea, but my guess is that the expense was too much, or they felt it wouldn't be sufficient, somehow.

Again, I haven't been there in a while, and I assume some people would have liked a sign posted inside (at the very least) to warn of the upcoming change, but for people like me, it wouldn't have actually given any warning.

I understand the importance of mikvah, but I still find it to be a very hard mitzvah for me (personally), which is why I find having to pay each time irritating. It's like - I'm being forced to do this really unpleasant mitzvah, and you want me to shell out money for it, too? Had I been surprised at my next visit, it only would have made matters worse (so I'm glad I have the forewarning). My kallah teacher explained that they don't have a yearly membership, since everyone's uses vary so greatly. I get that, as I myself, b"H, haven't needed to go so frequently since getting married. But I do think that if there were a membership option, I would go for it, in order to not have to pay whenever the occasion arises, and know that the "extra" money (if you will) is like a donation - since it's not like we were able to contribute as requested towards the building fund. If the membership idea were optional (without penalty to non-members, would that even make sense to anyone else?), it could also take away the sting of those TTC who keep coming back, or if they have a weird thing going on with their cycle (one woman told me how during one summer when she was starting BC after BF, she used the mikvah a bunch of times while on extended vacation?), to know that they're just covered for the year, regardless of how often they come. Any "unused" portions could help alleviate the unfunded funds. Others who can't afford it, would just pay as needed (with many of the lovely ideas others posted about sponsorship or pay as you're able, etc.).

Just my input.

Thanks for letting me know (inadvertently)!

Ruchel

Wed, Sep 06 2017, 10:16 am

I pay 21,4 dollar (converted) my delux mikve with a kit I brought at home after etc. I have no idea how 20/25 can be normative.

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