Purpose of Creation - Understanding Sin and Punishment

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Motek

Thu, Mar 31 2005, 8:31 am

sarahd wrote:

That's your interpretation of Rashi. Rashi doesn't say that. I'm not saying it may not be true, but please don't put words in Rashi's mouth.

actually, it's the Chasidic understanding of the purpose of Creation, based on the Medrash on "v'ruach Elokim merachefes al pnei ha'mayim" - this is rucho shel Moshiach

just so you know we are on the same wave-length (well, to a a degree Wink

) after I posted it, I thought, I should really separate the actual words of Rashi from the explanation of Rashi's words, so I agree with you that the difference should be clear

Motek

Thu, Mar 31 2005, 8:32 am

ForeverYoung wrote:

I just do not understand why people insist that bad things are not punishments, that they JUST happen.

who said they JUST happen? Question

and what does that mean anyway? Question

ForeverYoung
Guest

Thu, Mar 31 2005, 11:03 am

Motek wrote:

ForeverYoung wrote:

I just do not understand why people insist that bad things are not punishments, that they JUST happen.

who said they JUST happen? Question

and what does that mean anyway? Question

read back & you will see

and I don't understand what that mean either

ForeverYoung
Guest

Thu, Mar 31 2005, 11:03 am

Motek wrote:

sarahd wrote:

That's your interpretation of Rashi. Rashi doesn't say that. I'm not saying it may not be true, but please don't put words in Rashi's mouth.

actually, it's the Chasidic understanding of the purpose of Creation, based on the Medrash on "v'ruach Elokim merachefes al pnei ha'mayim" - this is rucho shel Moshiach

what is the source of this hasidish explanation?

who explains it like this?

Motek

Thu, Mar 31 2005, 11:07 am

as posted a few posts back:

Quote:

doing mitzvos to bring the Geula preceded the Chasidic movement and was kabbalistic. Every l’sheim yichud (uniting Kudsha Brich Hu with the Shechina) expressed this idea. Those who wished to join Ramchal’s inner circle had to sign that they forwent the merits of their mitzvos in this world and the next, and served Hashem solely to achieve the Geula!

it's Kabbala 101

also see Medrash quoted even fewer posts back

ForeverYoung
Guest

Thu, Mar 31 2005, 11:28 am

so who is the person who explains Rashi asu said b4?

Motek

Thu, Mar 31 2005, 7:17 pm

kabbalists, the Baal Shem Tov, his student the Maggid of Mezritch, etc.

Motek

Thu, Mar 31 2005, 7:49 pm

after Aleinu is a paragraph that says we hope:

Quote:

we may soon see Your mighty splendor, to remove destable idolatry from the earth and false gods will be utterly cut off, to perfect the universe through the Almighty's sovereignty. Then all humanity will call upon Your Name, to turn all the earth's wicked toward You. All the world's inhabitants will recognize and know that to You every knee should bend, every tongue should swear ... they will all accept upon themselves the yoke of Your Kingship that You may reign over them soon and eternally ...

a revelation of Elokus in the world, it's davened three times a day

gryp

Thu, Mar 31 2005, 9:06 pm

One of the 12 Psukim the L. Rebbe said every child should know by heart:

"Vizeh Kol Ha'adam Visachlis Briasoh Uvrias Kol Ha'Olamos Elyonim Visachtonim Lehiyos Lo Dirah Zu Bisachtonim"

Translation: "And this is the whole person and the reason he was created and the reason all the worlds were created, the upper worlds and the lower worlds: So there should be a dwelling place for Him (Hashem) here in the lower worlds."

Motek

Tue, Apr 12 2005, 3:35 pm

back to the topic of how to regard evil, I read the following:

R' Levi Yitzchok of Berditchev said that Hashem made a miracle that the wicked should act for the benefit of the Jews. This was a profound chidush.

The concept behind Purim is that good came out of all of the wickedness of Achashveirosh and Haman. So when a person contemplates how all of their evil was reversed for the good, it becomes clear that everything that appears to be bad at the moment, can change for the good and a person should not fear from anything.

A person is obligated to conduct himself on Purim as if there is no evil in the world. The evil of Haman and goodness of Mordechai are both good Exclamation

. That is what is meant by ad d'lo yoda - the difference between cursed is Haman and blessed is Mordechai, because both end up being good for the Jews.

amother

Sun, May 07 2006, 10:28 am

the world seems like such a horrible place. bad things keep happening. it's so hard to be good and do good. what does Hashem need the world for? why did He create the world? what are we doing here? why do we need to do mitzvos? can't we just be decent nice people? it's so confusing!!!!!!

I know this is a lot of questions in one, but in my mind they're all intertwined with each other.

didan

Sun, May 07 2006, 10:48 am

B"H

This is taken from askmoses.com.

For the full text of the answer, click http://www.askmoses.com/articl.....o=197

Quote:

According to the Midrash Tanchuma (Parshat Nasso), G-d wanted "a dwelling place in the 'lower worlds.' " But what are "lower worlds?" What are "worlds," for that matter--other planets? Basically, the "lower worlds" means the physical universe. G-d wanted a physical universe to exist in which He could be seen only with the mind, not with the eyes. He wanted Man to find Him, and make the physical universe a spiritual place--a "dwelling place for G-d"--where G-d would be obvious to all. And that's why He gave the Torah--so Man would know how to make the physical, spiritual.

Another quote: (For the full article click http://www.askmoses.com/articl.....18726)

Quote:

Within the wording, “Make for Me a sanctuary, so that I may dwell among them”, lies a deeper meaning. Grammatically it should have stated, “so that I may dwell in it” yet it states, “so that I may dwell among them.” The Sages point out that the construction of the Tabernacle is a pointer for each and every person to make a dwelling place for the Divine Presence within themselves.

As mentioned previously, every person is infused with a Divine Soul. It is the task of the soul to make a Mishkan out of the body in which it resides by elevating all bodily functions to a Divine purpose.

goldrose

Sun, May 07 2006, 12:45 pm

didan, good thread. I'm waiting for some good answers.

how about to have a good soft ice cream cone?!

with a brocha of course...to elevate the ice cream! Because, believe it or not, only a yid can do that!

Motek

Sun, May 07 2006, 5:12 pm

amother - I've merged your question to a thread that has answers to your questions! Please read the preceding posts Smile

red sea

Thu, Aug 03 2006, 8:12 pm

All right Motek, read this one too now I am really Confused

,

all the thought processes both sides were arguing and I am familiar with and I do not see any contradiction from either side, what posters have called the chassidic way of thinking I have seen Plenty by non chassidic

except maybe a teacher or two I had in school that were part of what we students dubbed the "oy yoy yoy, woe unto" generation,

but I have personally never seen a holy person speak that way, and is def not what I am familiar with in the people and Rabbi's I know, and I am so far from being chassidic I can't even tell you.

Crayon210

Thu, Aug 03 2006, 8:17 pm

red sea wrote:

what posters have called the chassidic way of thinking I have seen Plenty by non chassidic

That's because Chasidic thought has infiltrated non-Chassidic Judaism!

red sea

Thu, Aug 03 2006, 8:32 pm

Crayon210 wrote:

red sea wrote:

what posters have called the chassidic way of thinking I have seen Plenty by non chassidic

That's because Chasidic thought has infiltrated non-Chassidic Judaism!

then whats all the arguing about?

it does not sound like pple are arguing about which came first the chicken or the egg.

Motek

Thu, Aug 03 2006, 8:41 pm

On the one hand, yes, many chasidic ideas have permeated the hashkafos of all Jews.

On the other hand, permeated doesn't mean they fully adopted it. This is why you can read a Jewish book and see opposite hashkafos presented in the very same book. I've seen this. It's quite confusing.

Motek

Tue, Aug 07 2007, 9:05 pm

reviving this for amother who started a thread asking what our purpose here is

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