If you had the key to fixing it...

crust

Thu, Sep 07 2017, 12:47 am

amother papaya wrote:

[b]

Hm..
I thought it was hypothetical. Cant be the Pisetzner Gaon. He wrote his sforim a bit more than 70 years ago. Is she referring to the works of the Steipler? Rabbi Grunwald? Rav Moshe Feinstien? Who's work is only/already 70 years old?
Scratching Head

Now I am really curious.

DrMom

Thu, Sep 07 2017, 1:09 am

amother wrote:

The Maharal of Prague had what seems like a very progressive educational philosophy. He said that children need to learn Chumash without Rashi at first, so they can be familiar with the text. They should concentrate on Mishna and halacha before Gemara and Tosfos. (He actually says that the only reason Tosfos is so popular is that it's printed on the side of a standard Shas.)
Generally he felt that kids need basic knowledge first and abstract reasoning later, when they are intellectually capable of it. Otherwise, when they get married and go to work (as Jews did through the generations!) they will be going out into the world with fancy ideas and no knowledge.

This seems more logical to me that the educational approach of emphasizing Gemara above more foundational texts. I didn't think was such a radical idea.

salt

Thu, Sep 07 2017, 1:29 am

I am SO lost here. I really really don't understand.
You found a manuscript that no one else knows about but it was written by a well known gadol.
Are you so sure that absolutely no one else knows of his shita. Is it SO revolutionary. Did you get it in an aireloom, or find it in some geniza?
Did he not preactise this shita in his day? Do his descendants not know about it?
I really am trying to understand.
I thought it was a hypothetical question.

amother

Smokey

Thu, Sep 07 2017, 1:45 am

Yes people know it exists. It's not a manuscript, an heirloom, or a unique handwritten copy. It was printed.

But very few people actually STUDIED it. When it came out, from what I understand, it was quickly discounted as impractical. But having looked at it more carefully, I think it was simply misunderstood, perhaps because the time wasn't right for it.

I wasn't trying to make everyone curious (sorry!) or imply anything negative about our educational systems. I think there are significant flaws that most agree on, and I think that this can actually solve many of them. I apologize for being vague, I just don't think I can explain it well enough on a forum to overcome the initial "impractical" or "too basic" gut reactions that even I got when I first looked at it.

I think that maybe its time has come, and was looking for the best way to actually get it implemented.

Some of you helped me see what the process is, thank you!

amother

Violet

Thu, Sep 07 2017, 1:48 am

DrMom wrote:

This seems more logical to me that the educational approach of emphasizing Gemara above more foundational texts. I didn't think was such a radical idea.

Apparently in the 16th century, it was.

amother

Violet

Thu, Sep 07 2017, 1:50 am

amother wrote:

So scan it and post a link to the PDF file. There are some fairly intelligent women here who can read it and understand. Obviously the author wanted it publicized.

amother

Smokey

Thu, Sep 07 2017, 9:44 pm

Nothing to do with intelligence or lack thereof. I do not consider myself unusually intelligent.

It has to do with looking at this skeptically vs. looking at this as "this Gadol must have had a reason for doing it this way" and trying to understand. IMHO, anyone can compile a list of "it would be nice" for school. It takes a Gadol to take things out, clarify what is important and what is not.

If you'd like, post with your name and I will PM it to you. I'd rather not put it up to be attacked, I'd rather share with someone who would like to understand.

crust

Thu, Sep 07 2017, 10:23 pm

amother wrote:

Can you Please pm the info? Thanks. I will appreciate.

amother

Violet

Fri, Sep 08 2017, 12:15 am

amother wrote:

This Gadol published the ideas. Why do you get to decide who is too cynical to read them?

amother

Smokey

Fri, Sep 08 2017, 12:41 am

amother wrote:

This Gadol published the ideas. Why do you get to decide who is too cynical to read them?

So YOU go look it up and post it! Why put me up to it?

I explained already why I started this thread: To get ideas how to share this in a way that it has a chance of being implemented, not to debate the merits or otherwise of the system itself.

Please feel free to find published quotes and methods from Gedolim and put them up for discussion in another thread, I'm sure it will be fascinating.

naomi2

Fri, Sep 08 2017, 10:44 am

This post is a little bit infuriating. Of you have something to benefit ppl. Then share it! Don't taunt us with "clues". I read that you want to find ppl to implement it and don't want ppl picking it apart on imamother. But you know what, it's for out children so I would like to see this "life changing manuscript" for myself before you go to askanim and rabbis who will force the change on everyone without a consesus. I know it's most likely nothing will come of it but it's the principle of the matter. Why can't there be sharing of ideas and discussions about what's best for everyone? I'm tired being told what's good for me or my children!

amother

Smokey

Fri, Sep 08 2017, 1:01 pm

I apologize to all of those who feel I was baiting them. That was not my intention at all. I only shared what I thought was necessary to ask the question accurately, and later added more to answer further questions.

I don't feel that posting the system publicly will have any positive benefit on the current chinuch system. Many people saw it before me, as it IS published, but most didn't seem to find it useful or revolutionary at all. I therefore see no reason why I should republish it in a forum where I can't explain it properly.

If your curiosity is truly giving you no rest, please feel free to request a pm with your username, and I'll be happy to share.