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One of Us (new documentary about ex-Chassidish ppl)
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sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Sep 09 2017, 5:55 pm
My classmates would also say I was unstable. I used to cry a lot, seemingly randomly. The reason I was like this was *because* my father was abusing me.

It's really horrible to say that if a person appears emotionally unstable, they must be lying.
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das




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Sep 09 2017, 6:08 pm
sequoia wrote:
My classmates would also say I was unstable. I used to cry a lot, seemingly randomly. The reason I was like this was *because* my father was abusing me.

It's really horrible to say that if a person appears emotionally unstable, they must be lying.


She doesn't "appear" emotionally unstable. She was hospitalized in one of the top psych wards in the country more than once and has an actual diagnosis from medical professionals.
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amother
Gray


 

Post Sat, Sep 09 2017, 6:11 pm
sequoia wrote:
My classmates would also say I was unstable. I used to cry a lot, seemingly randomly. The reason I was like this was *because* my father was abusing me.I

It's really horrible to say that if a person appears emotionally unstable, they must be lying.

Im sorry to hear about that, thats horrible. Hugs. With Etty, I mean unstable as in being a pathological liar, and more, which isnt necessary for me to disclose. I am just stating her instability in defense of her husband, who doesnt get a chance to defend himself. Not because I feel the need to bash her. Apparently, I'm not the only one who knows her and these facts, considering that other posters have said the same about her. Sixofwands, I still find it ironic that you were so quick to bash my statement about Etty, and come to her defense, without giving thought to the fact that her poor husband is being publicly trashed without him being given a chance to state his point. Your hypocrisy is astounding.
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amother
Green


 

Post Sat, Sep 09 2017, 6:26 pm
I'm totally cringing at the tone of this thread :-(
Sending hugs to all Etty's of this earth.
I don't know Etty, but I do know human beings are not born bad. When children fall prey to a "rodef" their system can go out of whack. Compassion can help bring them closer to healing. Criticism , on the other hand, further deepens their pain.
I hope we can all find it in our hearts to have utmost compassion for the Luzers, Etty's, Henny's, and all those whose behaviors seem alien to us.
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Sep 09 2017, 6:29 pm
WoW yesterday when I commented on this thread I thought it was just a hot tip about a new docu. I'm happy to be ignorant of the characters mentioned or the drama. Maybe a spoiler alert would help in the subject line? Or is this all common knowledge in the east coast Jewniverse?
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amother
Dodgerblue


 

Post Sat, Sep 09 2017, 6:35 pm
sequoia wrote:
My classmates would also say I was unstable. I used to cry a lot, seemingly randomly. The reason I was like this was *because* my father was abusing me.

It's really horrible to say that if a person appears emotionally unstable, they must be lying.


Hugs! Me too.
Only I was suffering at my mothers hands. I wasn't weapy but acted weird in other ways.

I'll never forget some comments my friends made at school and camp that was super rude at the time but helped me be more aware of what I'm doing. I have bh come very very very far.


I don't know etty at all. But I do know Luzer, thru my husband.
He used to work at the same place my husband did. It is a very large company with lots of jewish employees from all over the religious spectrum.
At some point that had to let him go. He would have different girl friends walking in every day with treats for him. PDA's and more than once dodged having GF "A" see GF "D" coming to do the same...
The enviroment was a frum environment. Even the nonjewish and non religious workers respected that. He totally did not.

He told dh and some other workers that he thought the torah and all of it is total bs. Ch"v amd tried to engage them in converaations aboit them. All. The. Time.
He also said he "likes the look" and that's why he doesn't get rid of his peyos.
Then later on he admitted that it so tjat ue can get cast better this way. That some filmmakers are looking for the authentic look....
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chag334




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Sep 09 2017, 6:48 pm
Maya wrote:
And here it is. The chessed part. I'm surprised it took more than two posts before it was brought up.

It's true that they do chessed. It's also true that the lifestyle involves many radical, restrictive and borderline abusive practices. It's also true that a lot of the chessed is contingent on the continuity of this borderline abusive lifestyle, and often offered only to those who are committed to the lifestyle. One does not negate the other, and there's no reason why we shouldn't be allowed to talk about only one aspect of the whole picture.

This documentary focuses on the abuses heaped upon those who try to leave, and like a poster said above, other documentaries focus on the good parts. You're a hypocrite if you praise that one but disparage this one. Take the bad with the good. Learn about the entire picture, the entire community, and don't pick and choose to talk about only the things that make you feel all warm and rosy. This is the reality of the lifestyle.

While nowhere near as extreme as the instances shown in the trailer, I have some personal experiences with the difficulties of leaving the community. It bugs me when people try to whitewash these issues in order to feel good about themselves, especially people who know absolutely nothing about the lifestyle and wouldn't survive living it for a week.

I don't know if I'll be watching this documentary. I know some of the people personally and it may be too upsetting for me. I just wanted to comment on the inevitable chessed posts. You're not doing anyone a favor by pretending this doesn't exist.





The documentary points out the bad... So I in turn pointed out the good. Of course we have to look at the whole picture. I think this film seems to do a pretty good job pointing out the flaws. Drawing attention to the strengths wasn't meant to be harmful or offensive.
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crust




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Sep 09 2017, 7:21 pm
cnc wrote:
I'm utterly confused. What are you trying to say?


That in a world where technology lets you produce anything, I dont take clips, videos documentaries or footages at face value.


Last edited by crust on Sat, Sep 09 2017, 7:49 pm; edited 2 times in total
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crust




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Sep 09 2017, 7:39 pm
sequoia wrote:
My classmates would also say I was unstable. I used to cry a lot, seemingly randomly. The reason I was like this was *because* my father was abusing me.

It's really horrible to say that if a person appears emotionally unstable, they must be lying.


Im so so sorry for you. Hug Hug

Re the bolded; it really is horrible. I dont know enough about her to comment and chances are I will never know enough.
But YOU, I do know. I hope imamother counts... Smile
I'm sorry you were not believed. Trauma on top of trauma.
Just sending you more hugs for not being believed. Hug Hug
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Shoshana37




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Sep 09 2017, 8:05 pm
Definitely will be watching this movie. People should stop covering up the crimes these so called religious righteous Jews are doing.

I think all the abusers, and child molesters should be in jail and people should stop covering up for them it's such hilul Hashem.
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crust




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Sep 09 2017, 8:20 pm
Shoshana37 wrote:
Definitely will be watching this movie. People should stop covering up the crimes these so called religious righteous Jews are doing.

I think all the abusers, and child molesters should be in jail and people should stop covering up for them it's such hilul Hashem.


Will this documentary uncover even ONE child molester or abuser? Is this the agenda?
From what I've heard from Luzer the last few years, its not. But as I said, his story changes according to demand so I might be surprised.
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dancingqueen




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Sep 09 2017, 8:40 pm
amother wrote:
They did once. It was called "A Life Apart: Chassidim in America". There was also some segments of Oprah about Chassidim.
.


Yup, if you want a positive film about chassidim, you should watch the above documentary.

I do notice that this thread is full of LH about the ex chassidim who appear in this film. It's kind of ironic because it seems like that's one of the points of the film, that people who leave face a lot of backlash from their community.
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crust




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Sep 09 2017, 8:46 pm
dancingqueen wrote:
Yup, if you want a positive film about chassidim, you should watch the above documentary.

I do notice that this thread is full of LH about the ex chassidim who appear in this film. It's kind of ironic because it seems like that's one of the points of the film, that people who leave face a lot of backlash from their community.


I think that everyone here knows that I am usually number one to jump up to back OTDs. And ironically, I am sometimes being bashed for doing so.

The case with Luzer (and a few other OTDs who took the same route but I dont see the reason to mention thier names here) is, that he changes his story constantly. I believe he went through hell but sadly, he lost credibilty in my eyes.
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amother
Lilac


 

Post Sat, Sep 09 2017, 10:18 pm
This thread was hard for me to read.

My chassidish ex was angry and violent. Once even blood-on-the-floor violent.

I was never in a mental hospital, I never had any mental health problems. Always try to be happy and calm.

But I moved away from religion.

And there are plenty of people in my old life who - I'm sure - see me as the crazy and harmful one because I moved away from Torah and mitzvos.

This is also why I don't tell people why my marriage ended and why I don't post under my real name. No one would believe me. They would say, oh she's making it up and exaggerating it and who can trust someone who is OTD anyway. We can't trust them in our kitchens, why would we trust them about what happened in their marriage.

Instead of hugging this post, take some time to think about the women who are not believed, the women who keep everything quiet, who don't even leave... because people will call them crazy and not believe them. Think about them.
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crust




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Sep 09 2017, 10:38 pm
amother wrote:
This thread was hard for me to read.

My chassidish ex was angry and violent. Once even blood-on-the-floor violent.

I was never in a mental hospital, I never had any mental health problems. Always try to be happy and calm.

But I moved away from religion.

And there are plenty of people in my old life who - I'm sure - see me as the crazy and harmful one because I moved away from Torah and mitzvos.

This is also why I don't tell people why my marriage ended and why I don't post under my real name. No one would believe me. They would say, oh she's making it up and exaggerating it and who can trust someone who is OTD anyway. We can't trust them in our kitchens, why would we trust them about what happened in their marriage.

Instead of hugging this post, take some time to think about the women who are not believed, the women who keep everything quiet, who don't even leave... because people will call them crazy and not believe them. Think about them.


This is a very painfull post. Im so sorry for you.
I understand what you are saying about keeping silent for fear of not being believed.
I understand people who leave. I keep repeating it on this site.
I dare say; I dont think you are of the same caliber as some of the cast in this documentary.

(Didnt hug your post so I'll take the oppurtunity now. Hug )
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amother
Babypink


 

Post Sat, Sep 09 2017, 10:49 pm
I've noticed something very interesting: Most of this thread is either bashing chasidim, making them out to be completely evil, or supporting the OTD'ers, making them sound brave and praiseworthy. But you know what? I've noticed something that has seemed to pass under the radar...

After watching several of this documentaries about people leaving yiddishkeit, there was something niggling at the back of my brain, something that I, too, almost missed.

A lot of these people had kids that they walked away from.

If ANYBODY other than someone leaving the frum community would just pack up and leave their kids behind they'd be called a homebreaker. A lowlife. Scum.

And yet, how does no one realize that that a lot these people have done the same?

And you APPLAUD them?

I personally know a sweet, soft-spoken, loving chasidishe woman that was in her 8th month, pregnant with her first child when she came home from work one day to find a note from her husband on the table that thanked her for always being so nice to him, but that he had to leave, that he was tired of living a double life.

He walked out and left his wife and unborn child behind because he wanted to have "fun" without restrictions. I saw the wife a couple weeks afterwards; she was white like a ghost, traumatized. She gave birth without a husband at her side. You tell me: Who was the one to blame here for moral travesty?

I'm not absolving any monsters that may have abused these people in the past of their misdeeds, but I AM saying that a victim is only a victim until he hurts others. These OTD'ers are casting blame on people in their past, but not taking responsibility for the hurt they have caused.

And btw -- in MY chasidishe world, we are neither freaks (as one poster called us) nor a community of perverts. As in every sector of society, there are a handful of ill or evil people, but they do not represent the community as a whole.
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Sep 09 2017, 10:59 pm
amother wrote:
I've noticed something very interesting: Most of this thread is either bashing chasidim, making them out to be completely evil, or supporting the OTD'ers, making them sound brave and praiseworthy. But you know what? I've noticed something that has seemed to pass under the radar...

After watching several of this documentaries about people leaving yiddishkeit, there was something niggling at the back of my brain, something that I, too, almost missed.

A lot of these people had kids that they walked away from.

If ANYBODY other than someone leaving the frum community would just pack up and leave their kids behind they'd be called a homebreaker. A lowlife. Scum.

And yet, how does no one realize that that a lot these people have done the same?

And you APPLAUD them?

I personally know a sweet, soft-spoken, loving chasidishe woman that was in her 8th month, pregnant with her first child when she came home from work one day to find a note from her husband on the table that thanked her for always being so nice to him, but that he had to leave, that he was tired of living a double life.

He walked out and left his wife and unborn child behind because he wanted to have "fun" without restrictions. I saw the wife a couple weeks afterwards; she was white like a ghost, traumatized. She gave birth without a husband at her side. You tell me: Who was the one to blame here for moral travesty?

I'm not absolving any monsters that may have abused these people in the past of their misdeeds, but I AM saying that a victim is only a victim until he hurts others. These OTD'ers are casting blame on people in their past, but not taking responsibility for the hurt they have caused.

And btw -- in MY chasidishe world, we are neither freaks (as one poster called us) nor a community of perverts. As in every sector of society, there are a handful of ill or evil people, but they do not represent the community as a whole.


It's really much more complicated. I personally know men and women who stay in marriages because they don't want to lose their kids, they don't want to be blocked by the community from seeing their own children grow up.

And no, that's not good. Imagine that the rav of your shul is faking all of it just so he doesn't lose his kids. Or your child's chumash morah. No one needs that. So it's much more complicated.

I will say that the OTD world is pretty large and there are good and decent people and some @*&#% too... just like in the chassidish community, the OTD community is far from monolithic.
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amother
Babypink


 

Post Sat, Sep 09 2017, 11:02 pm
That's right. And I agree with you.

My only point was that people shouldn't automatically seek to make the community evil and at the same time, absolve those who have done wrong of their doings, simply because they may have been hurt in the past.

People are responsible for their own actions.
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creditcards




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Sep 09 2017, 11:47 pm
Maya wrote:
And here it is. The chessed part. I'm surprised it took more than two posts before it was brought up.

It's true that they do chessed. It's also true that the lifestyle involves many radical, restrictive and borderline abusive practices. It's also true that a lot of the chessed is contingent on the continuity of this borderline abusive lifestyle, and often offered only to those who are committed to the lifestyle. One does not negate the other, and there's no reason why we shouldn't be allowed to talk about only one aspect of the whole picture.

This documentary focuses on the abuses heaped upon those who try to leave, and like a poster said above, other documentaries focus on the good parts. You're a hypocrite if you praise that one but disparage this one. Take the bad with the good. Learn about the entire picture, the entire community, and don't pick and choose to talk about only the things that make you feel all warm and rosy. This is the reality of the lifestyle.

While nowhere near as extreme as the instances shown in the trailer, I have some personal experiences with the difficulties of leaving the community. It bugs me when people try to whitewash these issues in order to feel good about themselves, especially people who know absolutely nothing about the lifestyle and wouldn't survive living it for a week.

I don't know if I'll be watching this documentary. I know some of the people personally and it may be too upsetting for me. I just wanted to comment on the inevitable chessed posts. You're not doing anyone a favor by pretending this doesn't exist.


Not all chasidim are the same. You obviously don't come from mine where everyone feels so accepted no matter what lifestyle they choose. I am part of a chassidus that is known to be very accepting. Those chasidim who harrass others are not real chasidim. They are fakers pretending to be chasidim. And they don't mean it l'shem shamayim.
You need to experience living in my community.
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crust




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 10 2017, 12:08 am
creditcards wrote:
Not all chasidim are the same. You obviously don't come from mine where everyone feels so accepted no matter what lifestyle they choose. I am part of a chassidus that is known to be very accepting. Those chasidim who harrass others are not real chasidim. They are fakers pretending to be chasidim. And they don't mean it l'shem shamayim.
You need to experience living in my community.


Wow. I would love to know which community you are referring to. Breslov?
And out of intrest, if someome were to question your rebbe, would that person still be accepted? Would that person be understood and LOVED by the community?
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