Home

Yerida, feels like a failure...Shame
Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Inquiries & Offers -> Moving/ Relocating

Report offensive ad

View latest: 24h 48h 72h


hila









  


Post  Mon, Sep 11 2017, 3:03 am
I cant understand - all the time you struggled - you stayed
Now things are easier you want to leave?

I know op was quite a while ago.

It makes me sad when people leave. We davened for so long to come here to EY, and now people give in. I know it can be lonely - so reach out to others. Adopt a savta. Adopt family who are also lonely.
I know financially it can be hard, but so many people have learned to do with less.

And the USA is not a rose garden, tuition, medical expenses, employment are problems. So are earthquakes and tornados and terrorism too.
Back to top

amother




Goldenrod


Post  Mon, Sep 11 2017, 3:21 am
Super Mom wrote:
Hi ladies, I understand the 5 year aliyah itch but I feel that it's normal. Once the settler instinct has worn off and the bills need paying things can look bleak and yes, the equivalent communities are plagued with politics that makes everyone uncomfortable. I am in Netanya and having a real blast. I take the kids to the beach and have ladies nights doing hafrashat challah and really enjoying my avodat Hashem, bh! Before you throw in the towel, come and try a community that's a little more chilled in terms of daily life. There is a lovely chardal community that is constantly building. Pm me if you want to give it a try. שנה טובה ומתוקה


I live in a pretty chareidi yishuv, but there's another yishuv nearby that's more mizrachi, maybe what Super Mom calls chardal. A lot of American Yeshivish families seem to choose that yishuv over the chareidi one. I'm curious why people who have a hard time fitting in with chareidim here don't choose a community like that. It's very different from my impression of "dati leumi". I'm sure there's a range and variety in all groups, but from what I've seen, they take Torah and learning and halacha very seriously. This is not to say that you specifically should stay or feel bad about any decision you make, I'm just curious why so many here are saying they left or are leaving because of the chareidi community when there are other options available. (There is also a range of chareidi communities, so distancing yourself from your immediate neighbors also doesn't seem like a bad choice. Although it is a shame since you said your immediate circle is such a good fit.)
Back to top

sneakermom









  


Post  Mon, Sep 11 2017, 6:38 am
I didn't grow up with this "pressure" to live in Israel. So this is new to me, this sense of failure, spiritually.

Many of my friends moved to Israel when they got married but came back when their kids were about five. Because the culture and specifically the chinuch is so different.

I don't think they saw it as a yeridah. But that they benefited so much by starting out their married life in the holy land. And they hoped to take that kedusha and plant it wherever they decide to settle down in the world.

They each chose communities in America that were a good fit for them and they are thriving and active members.

As yidden our first priority is to build a Jewish Toradik home. In Israel, Paris, Peru, Australia. You name it. We can all bring moshiach together from around the globe.

We should never minimize the zechus of living in Eretz Yisroel. Nor should we make it a necessary component of being an erliche yid.

As a matter a fact Hashem gave us the Torah outside of Eretz Yisroel. Because the Torah is not contingent on living on the land. We are bound to the Torah. First and foremost. Wherever we may be. Wherever we go. Wherever we end up.
Back to top

mandksima









  


Post  Mon, Sep 11 2017, 6:49 am
It was a big decision for me to write this. I'm sure I will get a lot of angry responses but maybe I will touch some souls which is worth any public deriding here. I am writing Torah which forms my opinions. Everyone might not agree. I read a lot of sources because I love it so much and they have shaped my opinion over the years. When I first made aliyah, I didn't think like this and even earlier, when I spent a year after getting married here and then left, I never had any of these thoughts cross my mind. I thought EY was a lovely place to begin a marriage but when a health problem arose that I thought would be fixed better on my home turf, I left without any second thoughts. No charedi rav told me differently and I settled in America. My story of aliyah eleven years ago is for another post. Here, I want to tell what I have more recently come to learn about EY through my quest to become closer to Hashem and dig to the ultimate truth.

Here is my take on it. I'm trying not to sound judgmental as I definitely don't feel I have any right and I definitely don't want to Hashem to judge me harshly but I'd like to express my perspective on it just to show you it so you can think about it. Maybe it will change your thoughts, maybe not. I love you and all Jews regardless and think very highly of you for all your efforts that you have many thus far. Every moment you are here has unthinkable benefits so you have done well for your soul and your family's. Maybe what I write will remind you of the many benefits of staying and rethinking yerida. If not the OP, maybe someone else will have second thoughts or maybe someone would be inspired to make aliyah. This is why I take this risk of writing this long post. Haters will always hate and guilt brings defense mechanisms on but I want to write about love for EY and for Hashem.

Immediately, I think of an analogy. Failure to choose to remain in Israel is similar to failure to stay in a marriage with multiple issues. Honestly, no one should judge you as only you can make that decision. You know what you have been through and know how much more you can or should handle. I think if you want to be the kind of person who will work through a difficult marriage (not abusive but with issues to work on that one doesn't always want to face and would rather escape the need by ending it) then you stay because the alternative is unthinkable to you. You don't want to break up the special link between us and the Land and give up the brachot we receive from breathing in the air and walking steps on holy soil. The children who are raised here are different and most of the time you can see it unless you're davka not looking with a good eye. They can be very spiritually connected here. Divorce happens, sometimes for the ultimate good but often the priorities are off kilter and one is blinded by the bad and can't see the good anymore. I want to open your eyes or others as mine were so you can weigh the pros and cons with as much knowledge and passion as possible. If you know everything I write and still want to leave, that's your decision well-made then and I'm writing to others who may not know. There are many rabbis who don't encourage aliyah and hopefully they will take responsibility if that proves to be an err in judgement. We have to talk to Hashem ourselves and ask to be shown the right way as well. We have to learn the mitzvah of yishuv haaretz so we know what we need to know in order to make a good decision.

This happened to be the topic of a parsha class I gave this week as the parsha couldn't be any clearer so I'll share some of what we talked about as we all know people making yerida or not interested in aliyah in the first place and we tried to understand how this could be the current truth.

Living in the Land and appreciating Hashem's inheritance to us is the tikkun for the sin of the spies. By choosing to live here, and not listen to the words of the ancient spies or modern day versions of those who disparage the Land, we are rectifying that sin which is written to be the one we need to work on in this generation. Those leaving are not anymore continuing to rectify that sin and that should be another point to ponder on whether or not it is worth it. The unity of the Jews who live in Israel now have many strengths foreign to those who remain outside. One important strength is understood by the willingness by most here to bring many children into the world in an attempt to repopulate our nation which was decimated by the Holocaust. Both religious and non religious feel that national burden and often have a harder time with bigger families than they prefer but they feel it is worth it and something that we personally sacrifice for in order to help the greater cause.

Many religious and knowledgeable Jews have taken on an additional spiritual cause and that is to make aliyah, now, before Moshiach is revealed, in order to contribute to the greater cause of rectifying the Sin of the Spies. We can't understand the power of this tikkun but the Land spit us out even before we arrived there and sent us into the dessert for 40 years because of it so think about that relationship. Now that the Land is accepting us once again en masse, in this generation after the Holocaust and right before Moshiach (no rav disagrees with this) and the Land is giving forth unprecedented produce after centuries of thorns and swamps, we have all of the proof we need to come and repopulate the Land and show Hashem that we welcome his inheritance for us with open arms - despite the adages that say Eretz Yisrael is acquired through suffering. Suffering should not be a deterrence unless it is life threatening. We are told we are responsible for each other. Humanity is working on this tikkun together. The Jews have their special part as we have a connection to the Land. I feel like it is an invisible limb of sorts, that ground us to EY. You grow it once you're here if you're willing to take the good and seemingly bad here. Once grown, you feel immense pain to separate from EY and you feel the spiritual loss acutely. I think those who left on their own accord, never let that spiritual limb grow properly and therefore don't feel they are leaving part of their soul here. Learning about the mitzvah of yishuv haaretz helped me grow that limb. It makes me have a harder time relating to those who don't have it yet but my love for everyone means I really daven that everyone should be zoche to grow one themselves and feel a greater purpose to their Torah life by connecting to the Land in this special way. The greatest of our sages dreamed of this and some were able to achieve it. They had to work much harder than we do nowadays.

There are many with no strength to go through too much suffering and feel they can be just as happy outside the Land and so they justify their reasons and are ok with that. We can't judge that as people are given tests of endurance and they often fail, that is being human. You are not awful if you leave, you are just not being as great as your potential could bring you to if you remain here. When the world of lies ends, the truth will be exposed. The Jews in America and elsewhere are part of the whole moshiach process but it is your choice to decide on which side to be on now, The spiritual benefits of EY are endless. I want people considering yerida to think it over carefully and not just weigh their personal dislikes and inconveniences, even if they feel like they are too much to handle. I firmly believe that the Land spits people out or doesn't let them in (or creates situations that bring them over their limits or sell them enticing offers in chutz laaretz) when they haven't come to appreciate the inheritance that Hashem gave to us. Hashem is very upset with ingrates, we learned that in this past parsha when he lists the curses. Bikkurim in this parsha are a super important mitzvah (it is said the whole world could have been created just for this one) as it shows Hashem gratuity for his Land and bounty by everyone, even a king. One should always try to mean the words in our tefillot and since so many of them talk about the benefits of Israel and our gratefulness, we really have to try to incorporate that into our hearts and desires. We don't have bikkurim currently but we can do trumot and maaserot here and to give that up is something you should also feel a heaviness in the heart for.

In this past parsha, we read "V'haya Ki Tavo..." - "It shall be when you enter the Land that Hashem gives you for an inheritance and possess and dwell in it." We are taught "V'haya" is a word used to connote happiness which shows us we should only rejoice in dwelling in the Land (Or Hachayim Hakodesh.) We are given many verses of tochacha (rebuke) with the curses which state if we don't serve Hashem with happiness, we will lose the Land. A mitzvah done without joy is not achieved. It is good practice but doesn't achieve any tikkun. If joy can only be acquired through dwelling in the Land, we must dwell here or risk losing it and not fulfilling the mitzvot properly. You practiced mitzvot before you came on aliyah and then you got a chance to preform them for real, where it counts, in Eretz Yisrael and now you are considering leaving and giving up the real way to serve them. Are you sure you have thought this through? Sefer Charedim also says "V'haya" is a combination of one of the 12 names of Hashem to hint to the fact that one who dwells in EY clings to Hashem. The opposite is true for those who chose to dwell outside the Land, he is like one who has no Hashem. One who dwells here must constantly be happy about his perpetual mitzvah of living here (Ramban) because of his love for it. That sounds like a big task and it is! One must also be filled with fear and trepidation as we are connected more strongly to Hashem here and our aveirot count more as well. So, your fears are normal and necessary! Don't make them a reason for leaving! What about the true happiness one can only acquire here? What are you chasing after outside of Israel except for happiness you think can't be found here?

I just read that birkat kohanim is read outside of Israel on chagim only because it has to be said when there is joy and chagim are something that bring joy everywhere. In Israel, it is recited every day because true joy is felt on a daily basis here. The first word in our parsha (even more pronounced with the natural disasters this week to show Hashem's way of creating an immediate disappearance of materialism which we seem to think is constant - there is no coincidence in this world) teaches us that people are searching for happiness in the wrong place. When people "sojourn" from Israel to other lands, they may be protected there by their desire to return as soon as possible as they know they are only visiting and not relocating permanently. Like Yaakov taking his 70 people to Mitzrayim. They were blessed when they were still a small number. When they got too comfortable and multiplied and became mighty, that is when the Mitzrim oppressed them. We can expect great sufferings in foreign lands when we get too comfortable there and forget we're just visiting. We must remember our history. The Chasam Sofer says that as long as Jews are faithful to returning to EY, they will be safe in their exile. (Yes, yerida is exiling yourself again.) As soon as they renounce their ties to the Land (most American Jews, non-affiliated for sure but also others who don't even think about aliyah,) their troubles begin. It was only because of the forefathers' loyalty to the Land and only sojourning, that they merited being taken out of Mitzrayim. When Moshiach comes, the merit will probably also be from the avot as the current population has decided the diaspora is their permanent home. In this parsha, we learn that before entering the Land, we needed to see it as our inheritance and desire to dwell in Hashem's gift to us - only then will we merit to be able to dwell and possess it. Yerida shows that one doesn't see EY as an inheritance, doesn't it? If we believe Hashem has everything here we need, especially happiness that is a prerequisite for doing mitzvot properly, then leaving is stating the opposite, is it not? When we neglect the importance of EY, we endanger every Jew's life in the lands of exile. Does any possible yerida Jew want to take that responsibilty? We are responsible for each other.

These are the words of the Torah and our sages. I think many dismiss these words and I am not sure why. I'm sorry if these are not the words of all the Rabbis nowadays although the Torah is true forever and things haven't changed except for the ease of making aliyah compared to all of the generations before us. If anything, everyone should be encouraged to come on aliyah. We are told that before Moshiach many leaders of the Jewish people will be from the Erev Rav (Israeli government for sure but also those in rabbinical positions will be found out to be corrupt and full of sin.) Ask your rabbis how they justify this. I have never understood it. If a huge amount of Yeshivish Jews from America suddenly came (think about this week's devastation to Houston, Miami and Mexico City and everyone coming here instead of rebuilding,) you would have all of the educational and social needs you want met. The perfect transplanted communities. Numbers increase services and availability. One has to be very selective nowadays of which rabbis they are listening to, especially when it goes against clear passages from the Torah and all of our sages. I doubt the ones here are telling people to make yeridah when they are also saying Moshiach is about to be revealed. Yes, people are advised on an individual basis, but are any of these points I'm bringing up part of the conversation??

Just like the dove returned to Noach's ark because he found no rest for his feet, so to will all the Jews return to EY because they will find no rest from the torment from those living in the lands of exile (Midrash Aggadah, Noach.) Things are turning around now and destruction is happening worldwide, outside of EY, more and more one after another like we are told will happen - it is straight out prophesy. I'm not saying to be scared, on the contrary, be excited! Hashem is making it easier to come here when worldly possessions and incomes are taken away. When impurity of the other lands force us out and when our lives are increasingly at risk with anti-semitism and abuse of power from police and other military services. I read more and more daily that shows it is quickening in speed and life will not return to the way it was way back when. The America I enjoyed growing up in is no more already. I hope Jews everywhere read the signs early and can come and make aliyah with all of their family so no one will be missed before time is up for them to do it willingly. When Hashem gathers everyone, some will go against their will and won't get schar for doing it on their own. The test is being given now. Some will face their fears and worries and put their trust in Hashem and come now or at least desire it and be ready and some will hide in these lands until Hashem comes to gather all last remnants of the Jewish nation. We know that Hashem expresses himself through teva (nature) and derech hateva is for a snowball to continue rolling down a mountain and grow bigger. It never just stops and stays status quo or goes back up. I don't think anyone really thinks all of the issues in America or elsewhere are going to be reversed. More and more migrants and Moslem population growth is inevitable. I can't see that turning out well. We see that when they feel powerful in number, they are more brazen to enforce sharia law and ignore civil law. You rights in America are getting lower every moment on many fronts. We are told before Moshiach evil people are going to be exposed for their hidden evil and assume many will be powerful Jews in America. Jews will be blamed, even the innocent ones and overnight, anti-semitism could explode without protection. These are real scenarios. I daven Hashem should make everything go along with great mercy and compassion. Hashem knows that His nation is so far removed from Har Sinai, we are back to the 49th-50th level of impurity so we know the world will self-destruct soon unless Hashem intervenes. The reason for Noach's flood is relevant today as well. We are just promised that this time Hashem will save the world and bring it back to the way He wanted it from the beginning before sin. We are just waiting. Why go back into the place of uncertainty when you have the ability to stay in EY? You will just end back here hopefully but it could be with added suffering which is the reason you want to leave in the first place. I find most American rabbis to ignore all this just like the rabbis in Europe didn't give too much thought until it was too late. To say you can rely on your rabbis is saying you don't mind risking the same situation happening again. There are a few American rabbis urging aliyah and many, many Israeli ones who are looking at it with a different perspective.

We read Eichah not too long ago, the Torah Temimah says "She dwelled complacently among the nations and did not contemplate returning to EY. She failed because she did not find rest." We must learn from history. We are told Moshiach's arrival will be similar to how we went out from Mitzrayim. Only 20% left then and I sincerely hope Hashem's mercy will extend to every Jew with a spark of Hashem inside and a desire to call to Him at a time of crisis. The thought alone should sober us. Without committment to Hashem and gratuity for EY, how can we try to be worthy? Our merit should try to be self-earned and not only relying on our avot's merit and Hashem's abundant mercy.

Tell me again why you want to do yerida??!! You can think you need to re-prioritize educational needs and fitting into communities (which will all change after Moshiach runs his kingdom according to Torah) but you're skipping the major priority of living here. There is no better gift to your children so don't convince yourself of a happiness found elsewhere. Hashem tells us directly that it is only found in the Land, even before Moshiach's arrival.

I look forward to responses but please keep them nice. Remember, I'm just giving over my perspective that I've learned through many classes and books and my own soul searching. You don't have to agree but I'd like to hear why so I can learn your perspective, a Torah Jew who is searching for truth, as well.
Back to top

amother




Peach


Post  Mon, Sep 11 2017, 8:46 am
amother wrote:

The thing is... We belong to a community of very very idealist olim and we feel like we r betraying the community by leaving, we are kind of active in the community and for many reasons our decision, once announced, will be a bummer - potentially huge bummer.

Please chime in


Forget about what your neighbors think of your move, think about whats right for you and your family. There is no room for what other people think in this decision
Happy mother who feels settled and good about her life and where she lives = happy family


(I personally did not tell or ask anyone that we were leaving Israel until closer to the leaving date, and I did not discuss why in detail at all -because I didn't need anyones opinions - and everyone has an opinion about yerida)
Back to top

PinkFridge









  


Post  Mon, Sep 11 2017, 9:06 am
amother wrote:
It feels like a failure because it is a failure. A failure to immigrate.

Doesn't mean you are a failure (it might, but it doesn't automatically meant that), but let's just be honest.


Let me share a yamim noraim mashal. Say you're on a diet and there's a piece of cake calling your name. You resist for a half hour. An hour. After two, you eat it.
This would not be called a success. However, usually you eat it after fifteen minutes. This is a good thing. Your will power muscles are getting stronger. And hopefully stronger, and stronger. Maybe you'll even slice the cake into smaller portions. Maybe you won't eat it all together.
The nimshal is, we make all sorts of big plans, and then fall into our old habits. But who's to say that there isn't some positive gain from developing our muscles?
So I get what you're saying. If OP can approach this on a more intellectual level, she'll say, yeah, it didn't succeed. The question is, where to go from there? What kind of a framework do we put this in? I say be grateful for every moment of the aliya, which has made you all into different - in a good way - people, who will bring all this to now live fully in whatever the new normal is.
ETA: I'm writing this in a general sense, not necessarily to OP but anyone who's contemplated this decision and went through with it.
Back to top

amother




Seafoam


Post  Mon, Sep 11 2017, 11:40 am
sneakermom wrote:

As a matter a fact Hashem gave us the Torah outside of Eretz Yisroel. Because the Torah is not contingent on living on the land. We are bound to the Torah. First and foremost. Wherever we may be. Wherever we go. Wherever we end up.


The Torah assumes that Jews will live in Israel. Being outside the land is a punishment. Of course we should do our best wherever we are, but let's not pretend that other countries are spiritually equal to Israel.

Back to the op, at least you tried, and that puts you ahead of so many people. It is possible to live outside of Israel with a sense that Israel is the spiritual center of our lives, and I wish you much luck with that.

The problem for American and European charedim who make aliya is that they don't fit the community they find here. The answer, of course, is to come in larger numbers and to stay. That's what MO people did, and they have created communities that reflect their values. Of course you have to integrate and learn Hebrew, too.
Back to top

tichellady









  


Post  Mon, Sep 11 2017, 12:16 pm
amother wrote:
The Torah assumes that Jews will live in Israel. Being outside the land is a punishment. Of course we should do our best wherever we are, but let's not pretend that other countries are spiritually equal to Israel.

Back to the op, at least you tried, and that puts you ahead of so many people. It is possible to live outside of Israel with a sense that Israel is the spiritual center of our lives, and I wish you much luck with that.

The problem for American and European charedim who make aliya is that they don't fit the community they find here. The answer, of course, is to come in larger numbers and to stay. That's what MO people did, and they have created communities that reflect their values. Of course you have to integrate and learn Hebrew, too.


There are plenty of different views about this among rishonim and achronim so we don't all have to agree. The rambam doesn't even think that a places can be holy.
Back to top

PinkFridge









  


Post  Mon, Sep 11 2017, 1:06 pm
amother wrote:
The Torah assumes that Jews will live in Israel. Being outside the land is a punishment. Of course we should do our best wherever we are, but let's not pretend that other countries are spiritually equal to Israel.
.


The Torah was given in the midbar for a number of reasons including
1) To live a Torah life, one has to make him/herself into a midbar, which is ownerless. IOW, no ego.
2) As much as there are many mitzvos hateluyos ba'aretz, and the thrust of Sefer Devarim is a preparation for living in E"Y (hence repetition of mitzvos that will be especialy relevant), and for whom don't the words "Libi b'mizrach v'anochi b'soch maarav" resonate, we needed to start living a Torah life with the very concrete message that living a Torah life is not dependent on geography.

While other countries aren't spiritually equal to E"Y, people can fully maximize their spirituality and fulfill their tafkid in life in chu"l too.
Back to top

amother




Royalblue


Post  Mon, Sep 11 2017, 4:11 pm
Mandksima,

You said a lot and I understand your passion for E"Y and feeling that you MUSt be here spiritually. I also feel that way...

BUT

I have a responsibility to raise my son to be a erliche yid and I feel that with all the nuances here I don't have the seichel and tools to do it here maybe.... I am INADEQUATE here in E"Y. MY Hebrew will never be as good as English... and the chedorim we need are INADEQUATE too..

My son has not been learning normally for all the time we have been here. We have seen SO much...

I love E"Y but I owe it to my son to provide him with a normal life...

I am sorry, but I don't see anything normal coming out of him living in Israeli chareidi society. I can't handle this nisayon... to know that my child is getting a sub par education on every level... My obligation to my child is not something I can ignore...
Back to top

amother




Ginger


Post  Wed, Sep 13 2017, 7:46 am
DVOM wrote:
My year of seminary had given me a beautiful, inspirational, but thoroughly sanitized version of Israeli charaidi society. I love Israel passionately, but I can see why many Americans would have a hard time finding a community they could feel comfortable in.


This.

And sneakermom Thumbs Up
Back to top

amother




Lavender


Post  Wed, Sep 13 2017, 8:33 am
Is there anyone you can go to for guidance -daas torah?
I heard a story about R Aaron Kotler -don't know for sure if it's true. When he was leaving Europe and deciding whether to go to EY or america. He opened the chumash to the pasuk where Hashem is saying to Aaron to go toward Moshe in the midbar (lech likras moshe hamidbara) and he took that to mean to join R Moshe Feinstein in America. it was where his tafkid was. if there is a tzaddik who you can talk to and would understand , perhaps he/she can guide you to do what is really best for your family.
Back to top

amother




Chartreuse


Post  Wed, Sep 13 2017, 11:13 pm
MandKsIma, you said some beautiful things. However, not every problem has a solution. OP is concerned about her son's chinuch, and I do think that must be a major priority.

Re guidance, I just have an important warning to mention. We know a family who made aliyah and their children were really doing very poorly. (at least 1 out of school, etc.) They asked many people in EY and everyone told them to keep trying, try a different community.

(One thing the mother told me was how the children felt looked down upon by Israelis as though they were just dumb. For example, she said, a multiple choice test is called מבחן אמריקאי showing you how stupid Israelis consider Americans.)

Finally one day, one their mentors told them that an American Gadol was visiting and took them for an appointment. That Gadol told them "Leave today!".

Evidently most or many people in EY are zocheh to see only the good. But if a family is suffering, they need real objective guidance.
Back to top

amother




Jetblack


Post  Thu, Sep 14 2017, 5:30 am
Dear OP, have you tried really asking Hashem to help you to stay in EY? Have you asked Him to help you find a way to raise and educate your son here? I just believe in the power of simple, straight forward davening in your own words to the Master of the world who can do anything. In my experience, honest pleas for help don't go unanswered (though the answer might be something unexpected sometimes).
Back to top

amother




Royalblue


Post  Thu, Sep 14 2017, 6:33 am
amother wrote:
Dear OP, have you tried really asking Hashem to help you to stay in EY? Have you asked Him to help you find a way to raise and educate your son here? I just believe in the power of simple, straight forward davening in your own words to the Master of the world who can do anything. In my experience, honest pleas for help don't go unanswered (though the answer might be something unexpected sometimes).


thank you, its good advice.Though I feel like I have...maybe I have not davened like this...not completely. I feel so powerless that I feel like I cant daven...if we see yeshuas it will be ur zchus!
Back to top

imasoftov









  


Post  Thu, Sep 14 2017, 10:16 am
amother wrote:
(One thing the mother told me was how the children felt looked down upon by Israelis as though they were just dumb. For example, she said, a multiple choice test is called מבחן אמריקאי showing you how stupid Israelis consider Americans.)

I have no opinion on whether OP or anyone else should do, or about what sort of test is better, but it seems that the multiple choice test is called that because it was invented in the US.

https://www.hastac.org/blogs/c.....ome-anyway

The Hebrew Language Academy would prefer that people said מִבְחַן בְּרֵרָה, but they can be ignored until they come up with a Hebrew name for themselves.

http://hebrew-academy.org.il/2.....%A4%D7%A8/

It's also called מבחן רב-ברירתי by people more yekkish than the Academia.

https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/.....7%AA%D7%99
Back to top

amother




Seafoam


Post  Thu, Sep 14 2017, 2:44 pm
amother wrote:


(One thing the mother told me was how the children felt looked down upon by Israelis as though they were just dumb. For example, she said, a multiple choice test is called מבחן אמריקאי showing you how stupid Israelis consider Americans.)

Finally one day, one their mentors told them that an American Gadol was visiting and took them for an appointment. That Gadol told them "Leave today!".

Evidently most or many people in EY are zocheh to see only the good. But if a family is suffering, they need real objective guidance.


Sometimes "American" means "different." Think of בוטנים אמריקאים, those coated peanuts that most Americans have never seen before coming to Israel.

And yes, some families should not live in Israel. Just as some families would do well to get out of Lakewood or KJ. The problem isn't Israel per se, it's the social setup.
Back to top
Previous  1, 2 Recent Topics

Page 2 of 2 View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Inquiries & Offers -> Moving/ Relocating

Similar Topics Replies Last Post
Yerida after 5 years?
by amother
15 Sun, Apr 26 2015, 12:00 pm View last post
yerida with a 9 year old boy???
by amother
3 Tue, Feb 28 2012, 6:25 pm View last post
Yerida with 8 and half year old boy, illiterate in English 35 Sat, Sep 30 2017, 4:42 pm View last post
We made yerida and all our clothes smell like vomit 3 Wed, Sep 17 2014, 9:38 am View last post
walk of shame
by amother
54 Sun, May 03 2009, 7:26 pm View last post

Jump to:  







Report offensive ad