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amother
Wine


 

Post Thu, Sep 14 2017, 7:23 pm
I try to train my kids not to be afraid of dogs and they actually get excited when they pass one (I don't want them to be the ones running across the street at a mere bark!)

Anyway, I was in a (non-Jewish) store today an a girl walk in with a dog.
my 2 little kids were quiet excited with my baby making fake barking sounds and the older one asking me to follow it around the store.
time to pay and I put all my items on the checkout. the girl with the dog came behind me which was totally ok. then another jewish women with a girl about 3-4 came onto line behind the dog. suddently this 3 yr old started howling (seriously never heard someone yell/cry so loud) as she was afraid.
the girl with the dog started apologizing and then of course with all the commotion my DD started crying thinking that she is supposed to be afraid too! I held her and calmed her down right away but that other little girl was still howling!! for about 5 min until I left the store the mother was still waiting on line near the dog with her kid yelling on top of her lungs!!

besides for the fact that I think it was a bit of a chillul hashem (a bunch of gentiles saw what was happening and came over to pat the dog etc) what was this mother thinking?? take your poor kid away from the dog!! she was seriously frightened besides for everyone not exactly appreciating her vocals!!

now if my DD would see a dog again, she might def start crying. am I supposed to just stand there like an idiot with my DD yelling or calmly walk away?? what's the right thing to do?
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amother
Copper


 

Post Thu, Sep 14 2017, 9:11 pm
I dunno what to say. The Nazis frightened our ancestors with dogs. The trauma is deeply ingrained :-(
Not to mention, there are dangerous breeds out there :-(
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sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 14 2017, 9:54 pm
Ancestors? You mean, like, grandparents?

There are breeds that are best left alone. Learning about different dog breeds is the best way to gain confidence. I'm mildly obsessed with dogs and love reading about them. This is helpful when deciding whether to approach a dog and ask its owner if I can say hi, or walk on by. Regardless, crying or running away is never an appropriate response.
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MrsDash




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Sep 14 2017, 11:46 pm
amother wrote:
I dunno what to say. The Nazis frightened our ancestors with dogs. The trauma is deeply ingrained :-(
Not to mention, there are dangerous breeds out there :-(


What

There are more dangerous breeds of humans out there to worry about than dogs...
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saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 15 2017, 4:25 am
My kids were afraid of dogs because they were attacked by dogs. That poor little girl was afraid. Why are you so concerned with the chillul hashem? We all parent differently. Don't judge the poor mom for handling in a way that you disapprove of (hey, the way you describe it doesn't sound great, but you never know the full backstory)
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amother
Lavender


 

Post Fri, Sep 15 2017, 4:33 am
sequoia wrote:
Ancestors? You mean, like, grandparents?

There are breeds that are best left alone. Learning about different dog breeds is the best way to gain confidence. I'm mildly obsessed with dogs and love reading about them. This is helpful when deciding whether to approach a dog and ask its owner if I can say hi, or walk on by. Regardless, crying or running away is never an appropriate response.

Please list if you can. My kids love dogs.
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Seriously




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 15 2017, 5:34 am
Why was a dog in a store??
Unless it was petco..
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 15 2017, 7:02 am
I encourage my kids not to be afraid. I trust the owner, and teach safety.

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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 15 2017, 7:25 am
Perhaps the other mother was trying to get her DD over her fears, by showing that there was no need to run away.

I agree that teaching dog safety is extremely important for everyone, mom, kid, and dog owner.

I'm a bit dog crazy (LOL, obsessed), and I love all breeds. I've gone up to pet a massive pitbull, and carefully walked around a frantically barking miniature poodle. It's all about learning to read a dog's body language, and the owner's body language as well. If the owner is calm and relaxed, you can be too. If the owner is nervous and unsure about being able to manage their dog, it's best to steer clear.

I'm considering offering a group Skype call on how to teach dog safety to kids, if anyone is interested. PM me for details.
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amother
Saddlebrown


 

Post Fri, Sep 15 2017, 10:59 am
I think you're judging the mother unfairly. First of all, chillul Hashem is a major exaggeration. Nobody was doing anything wrong, a three year old child was freaking out for some irrational (to us adults) reason like every other three year old child on the planet does.

Secondly, this has nothing to do with the mother's parenting. When a kid is scared of something, yes, the parent should try all reasonable measures to allay the fear, but at the end of the day, even if you try, sometimes they just won't get over it. One of my kids is scared of dogs. There's no real reason for it (he was never attacked or anything) and he has had plenty of exposure to dogs. We even tried intorducing him to a therapy dog (those dogs are specially trained to be really good with people, especially anxious people) and he was still afraid. He's older now, so you won't see him screaming or running away, but he still definitely fears dogs. You can see the look on his face when a dog comes too close for comfort or when he hears a startling bark. He will quicken his pace or edge away, anything to discretely put some distance between himself and the dog.

Lastly, you are not owed a world that conforms to your parenting ideals. When you leave the house with your kids, you are taking the risk they will see other kids behaving differently than they are expected to. Yes, other parents will sometimes make decisions that make it harder to enforce your expectations, but you can't control what others do, you can only control what you do.
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 15 2017, 11:37 am
you might enjoy this post written by a frum woman who had the standard attitude about dogs but then got one. http://outoftheorthobox.com/do.....3adaa
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Petra




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 15 2017, 12:11 pm
I think most kids have a natural curiosity towards anything fluffy with a tail and 4 legs. Fear response is mostly a learned and reinforced response. There are probably a few kids though where fear is innate.

I, for one, am so glad we are at a level in society where we can have pets.

We all love family however sometimes it's challenging! Loving a pet unconditionally exercises the ability to love and have empathy for a living being. Having a pet is such a stress reliever too usually.

Growing up we had cats, dogs, rabbits, horses, fish, even a goat for a while. Dogs are great but for some reason, cats are my favorite. There aren't too many things I'm afraid of, which I think is partly because I had the responsibility of helping to raise these animals when I was a kid. It's better living all around in my opinion to be closer to the earth, closer to where our food comes from, away from artificiality and automation...that is a whole other thread though.
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Shoshana37




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 15 2017, 1:19 pm
We have a shitzu little puppy and my family loves dogs or any animals. However some friends and relatives all look at us like we are crazy. Not all dogs are dangerous, parents just need to educate their kids more.
Before we got our dog my kids would pet all kinds of dogs of course I taught my kids to ask the owner for permission first.
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 15 2017, 1:46 pm
I'm going to buck the trend here and agree with OP that the mother behind her should have removed her child from the scene. If a kid is howling loudly for more than a few seconds, you remove them from the trigger until they calm down. A supermarket is not the place for exposure therapy, and allowing crying to continue is not the way to do it either.

I model and encourage my kids to be friendly to domesticated animals, but they both went through phases of fear. I think it's a normal human condition that some people go through even if it's not taught. (we have TONS of pet dogs living around us, btw.) I would not force my child to stay in a situation where she feels threatened for any reason.
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chestnut




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 15 2017, 1:55 pm
amother wrote:
I dunno what to say. The Nazis frightened our ancestors with dogs. The trauma is deeply ingrained :-(


With all due respect to all survivors, this doesn't make sense one bit. Survivors might be afraid of dogs for that reason, but not their grand and great grandchildren.
Not to mention that many, many frum Ppl are scared of cats, too. How would u explain that?
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 15 2017, 2:15 pm
chestnut wrote:
With all due respect to all survivors, this doesn't make sense one bit. Survivors might be afraid of dogs for that reason, but not their grand and great grandchildren.
Not to mention that many, many frum Ppl are scared of cats, too. How would u explain that?


I was terrified of dogs as a kid. And I despised cats. Nothing to do with how I was raised; my brother loved dogs, and lots of friends had dogs. Some kids are just afraid. Not necessarily anything to do with being frum, or how they were raised.

My fear was debilitating. I crossed streets to avoid dogs. My best friends had to lock up their dogs, or I wouldn't go there. And we're talking toy poodle, not pit bull. Eventually, I forced myself to get over it by chanting "I am not afraid" whenever I saw a dog. I still don't like them, but I can deal with them.

I still hate cats, FTR. But I have an excuse -- I'm extremely allergic.
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chestnut




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 15 2017, 2:58 pm
So, there are definitely kids who are just petrified of dogs, no doubt. However, it's not a secret that in RW communities ppl are afraid of and show their disdain to dogs and cats. Adults, and if course, kids. And many will look down at pet owners.
Before you all jump at me, I'm talking about RW big tri state communities. Oot everyone is more chilled in many areas, this including.

And another proof that it doesn't stem from holocaust is that families whose great grandparents came here before ww2 are scared of them just the same.
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amother
Copper


 

Post Fri, Sep 15 2017, 3:13 pm
I don't want a dog, but my kids do. They go to the dog shelter regularly, and they spend time with the neighbors' dogs.
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amother
Copper


 

Post Fri, Sep 15 2017, 3:15 pm
I confess, I am scared of dogs :-(
When I was growing up there was no leash law where I lived and dogs regularly attacked children who were playing outdoors.
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 15 2017, 3:23 pm
chestnut wrote:
So, there are definitely kids who are just petrified of dogs, no doubt. However, it's not a secret that in RW communities ppl are afraid of and show their disdain to dogs and cats. Adults, and if course, kids. And many will look down at pet owners.
Before you all jump at me, I'm talking about RW big tri state communities. Oot everyone is more chilled in many areas, this including.

And another proof that it doesn't stem from holocaust is that families whose great grandparents came here before ww2 are scared of them just the same.


And there are many in right wing communities who love dogs, or at the very least are neutral about them. I have some chassidish nephews who love dogs and some yeshivish nieces and nephews that love dogs and my kids are neither chassidish or yeshivish and they live dogs. It has more to do with how you're raised then anything else.
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