Claims his "hands hurt"

amother

Burgundy

Mon, Oct 02 2017, 2:57 am

amother wrote:

What makes me more frustrated, is that I HAVE tried all of these things--but they are just not working. Seems like the more positive reinforcement I give him he's either "not in the mood for that thing." He just wants EVERYTHING to be "fair" but his definition of fair is if I help him as much as HE wants. So its hard for me to discern if this "hands hurting" is legit or just another hypochondriac excuse as to why he's not contributing. I'm sorry if I'm just "kvetching" some more, but when I'm dealing with a daily 30-1 hr long tantrum where I'm locking myself and him in the bathroom b/c he's throwing an out-of-control tantrum (throwing things at me and trying to hurt/bite me) not letting me get ANYTHING done, and then he demands that I help him NOW and even when I give in to his requests out of love, he does nothing about his end of the bargain, it just feels like nothing works with him and he always manages to manipulate his way to what he wants. How do I find out what is going on with his hands?

A few things.

First of all, out of the suggestions of positive ways to work with your son which I mentioned in my earlier post, the most important thing I mentioned is to do it in small steps. It took 6 months of small steps for my daughter to dress herself every day. But we gave her steps she could handle - teeny tiny ones, every week, until she got it. Even if it was just 1 sock, so for a whole week, she gets a star every day she puts on one sock. The next week she can get a star any day she puts on two socks. If that's too much, we spend another week on just one sock instead. It took weeks and months to just get her to put her clothes on herself, with us sitting by patiently with her, and dressing her the rest of the way. And praising each and every tiny thing she did herself. After a year of that, she gets dressed all by herself in the mornings in a timely fashion with no intervention from us at all. Same thing for cleaning up. Put on a timer for just 1 minute or even just 30 seconds if you have to. Spend 3 weeks on that before moving to 2 minutes. In several months, you'll have a kid who can spend 10 minutes cleaning their room. It takes time at this age, and he clearly has an issue with doing these things, and so starting at a very bare minimum is necessary.

Secondly, as far as his hands, I have a few ideas on that. My daughter actually does have some physical issues, so we've been down this road. Things to check out:
1) Muscle tone and Joint mobility (yes, both) - get evaluated by an orthopedist, a neurologist, and a physical therapist (yes, all three). Make sure to assess not just the hands, but the shoulders as well, as much of our hand strength actually stems from the shoulders. Joint mobility in particular should be evaluated in the small joints of the hand (I.e. fingers), as well as the larger joints (wrists, elbows, shoulders). His muscle tone and joint mobility should both be evaluated to see if they are too high or low. Either one could cause pain.
2) Dyspraxia / Developmental Coordination Disorder (DCD) - these are actually the same thing with different names, but it means there is a difficulty with motor planning. It often gets overlooked. It wouldn't actually cause direct physical pain, but it might be hard for your son to figure out how to coordinate his hands properly, and he may just tell you that they hurt, because it's easier to explain. It could be they also really hurt because he is not using them properly because his motor planning isn't great. Kids like this also can't usually explain that tasks that require motor skills are hard for them, and so they often protest having do things (like clearing something off the table or putting on a shirt), because they have negative associations with it because it's hard, even if they can't verbalize that. It's not always obvious - don't say that just because your son can build with legos and play with a ball that this isn't a problem. Many people have this undiagnosed. A developmental pediatrician or developmental neurologist (is that what they are called) can evaluate this.
3) Sensory problem - If you're son has sensory issues, touching things could cause him pain. The feel of the candy wrappers, toys, clothes, etc on his hands could cause actual pain and discomfort. Kids with sensory problems also often have low frustration tolerance in general and more/longer tantrums than the average kid. This should be evaluated by a neurologist and an OT.
4) Executive functioning - meaning, ADHD or other difficulty with executive function. A lot of what you describe is common among ADHD kids - trouble with multi-step tasks (like getting dressed), trouble with tasks that require the ability to break things down into smaller tasks (cleaning a room full of toys), trouble following directions (even simple ones). Sometimes, it's not obvious it's hard for them, they just put up a major fight because they have negative associations with it, even if they can't verbalize it. And he may say that his hands hurt, because it's easier to explain (though ADHD wouldn't cause direct physical pain). Kids with ADHD also often have low frustration tolerance, more tantrums, impulsive outburst (especially when emotions run high, they may lash out in a physically aggressive manner or say hurtful things). Sound familiar? Kids with ADHD also tend to have sensory problems, if you suspect that. A neurologist or neuropsychiatrist (again, is that what it's called) can diagnose this. ADHD can be diagnosed as young as age 4 these days, so no reason to wait to get started.

Out of curiosity, did your son crawl on all fours (hands and knees together, rather than just scooting on stomach or bottom)? Some kids who never crawled on all fours have weakness in their hands, which can be fixed by OT.

Lastly, you may want to read the book 'The Explosive Child'. It may have some good tips for you.

ora_43

Mon, Oct 02 2017, 11:19 am

Sounds tough, OP.

I think some of the responses here are way too harsh. It seems like some people are starting with the assumption that the child has no developmental/emotional issues, and working backward from there (ie, looking for things OP might be doing to cause a "normal" child to act this way).

But some kids are just like this. Not because their mothers are too demanding, or don't show enough love, etc. Just because that's their emotional makeup, and they need extra help to learn to communicate, to express emotions in an appropriate way, and to regulate their emotions.

That said, OP - the advice you got here is good.

I believe you that you love your kid and show him love; I believe your requests are reasonable. But still, the best advice is to show even more love and attention. Not necessarily when he's demanding attention; in fact, davka when he isn't. Show him that he gets attention and love even when he isn't tantruming or demanding. (not that you act cold when he is demanding, of course)

And to focus on 1-2 things you want to work on, and try to move forward with baby steps. Heap lots of praise on him when he shows improvement in those areas. (Don't make it about what his siblings do - yes, older siblings will complain that it's not fair that he doesn't have to do XYZ when they do, but that's because they're too young to understand that not all kids have the same abilities, not because it's actually unjust. If anything, give the other siblings extra treats/praise as well.)

Does he express his emotions well? It might help to help him name his emotions. Like, "you're very angry right now, aren't you" or "you're sad that you missed shul." Children's books might help - like, if he gets upset by new situations, a story about a kid who's scared before his first day of school; maybe a book about a kid who gets a new baby sibling.

See if there's anything that can help him calm down faster. Either to prevent a tantrum, or to calm him down after 2-3 minutes of crying. Maybe music, maybe a snack, maybe a book on tape... Not as a reward for crying, more like, "Dovi, when you've calmed down, we're having juice and crackers in the living room." And then walk out. Or turn on a story on tape in his room, and walk out. Not everything will work, but something might.

One other thing - take extra care with his physical needs. Like, avoiding low blood sugar, maybe he needs a daily nap or quiet time immediately after school/daycare... I'm not saying you neglect his needs, but for kids who have trouble regulating emotions being tired or hungry can make it SO much worse.

amother

Brown

Mon, Oct 02 2017, 2:35 pm

amother wrote:

FTR, I HAVE been reading a lot of these posts. This has been one of the few to offer a few practical solutions--many have been practical--but I HAVE tried the classic behavior modification route and instead of bashing my parenting style--no I'm not "worn out and keep having kids" its more that this attitude is spreading to my other kids and its making living in our house difficult b/c he just keeps playing and will not acknowledge the time to stop without throwing a major tantrum. I do think there is SOMETHING physiological/psychological going on. I've been WAITING for him to get services since MARCH--and its been a run-around. I thank those who are validating that this NOT normal 5 year-old behavior. I appreciate this about dyspraxia--I have a different child with this. As for his motor skills--he was early with most things aside from rollng over--but he figured it out quickly enough. He walked at 10.5 months, crawled normally. While my dyspraxic kid has had difficulty with buttons and riding his bike--this kid was buttoning at 3.5 and if we had worked on it more consciously this summer I'm sure would've been riding a bike without training wheels. I tried going the sensory route, but he's really not that sensory--just VERY sensitive and somewhat fearful--though he's a daredevil otherwise. The only other "clue" I have is that he doesn't like to walk a lot. He will insist on going in the shopping cart/stroller, but I suspect that its more of a jealousy thing than a fatigue thing--but I can't prove it.

WhatFor

Mon, Oct 02 2017, 4:44 pm

OP, at this point, you have enough experience to know that asking him to do favors is going to trigger an emotional response within him that will make him angry. Every time you ask him something and he experiences this angry reaction within himself, it builds on his prior anger and resentment and further cements his association with your asking him things as a negative experience.

It seems it has gotten to the point where he's unwilling to even do chores for himself, much less for you.

His other behaviors indicate that he wants to be babied. You said he's a sensitive child, which means he might need more coddling and more hugs than some other children. He has two younger siblings, which may have caused him to get less attention when he was a baby, and he has at least 2 siblings that seem to require less attention than he does. That doesn't mean he doesn't require extra attention.

For both of your sake, certainly stop asking him to do anything for you. Where he is now, each time is going to further cement his anger toward you asking him to do chores. He needs to lose this association. Even if he grudgingly does it 1/3 times, you're not winning in the long run.

What would happen if for the next few weeks or even a month, you babied him? Instead of asking him to get dressed, you just went into his room and dressed him without comment about whose responsibility it is? This could also give him precious extra time with you. When you ask all the kids to clean up and he does a fraction of his siblings, just thank everyone so much for all their help, and keep commenting on how proud you are of the helpers, including him, if he's there, but don't comment on him not being there if he runs away. (If your other kids comment on it, say you're very proud of them for helping, everyone is stronger at different stuff, and 5yo has great middos when it comes to xyz. And you are so so proud of them for helping.)

The point of that is to create distance between you asking him to do stuff and his negative associations. After a month of this, you can try implementing parts of it, and maybe consult a child psychologist with some sort of action plan. You might not "get" him bc your personality might be more like your other children, but his needs are very much real.

A side point: where is your dh in all this? Also, are these traits, by any chance, shared by dh?

DREAMING

Mon, Oct 02 2017, 6:27 pm

ora_43 wrote:

Agreed!!!

Laiya

Mon, Oct 02 2017, 8:42 pm

OP, you sound like you are really trying hard and the situation is very stressful. This is just my perspective, and it might be completely wrong.

You describe how ds wanted to help with the sukkah. You put the word “help” in quotation marks. He tried to build some contraption, unrelated to building the sukkah, and he refused your requests to do things that would have actually been helpful to you.

It’s frustrating when we have so much to get done and the kids seem to be slowing everything down, so this is not a judgment.

But I wonder if, in ds’s mind, he felt like he was helping build the sukkah, because he was creating something using sukkah building materials?

Like when dd 5 helped braid the challah, and we told her it tasted so delicious because of how beautifully she’d braided it. That’s not logical, but to a 5 year old, that type of association makes sense.

But then your ds’s creation broke.

That may have felt devastating to him. The way dh might feel if the sukkah he just built collapsed in a gust of wind.

No one validated ds’s feelings.

Next, ds threw a tantrum and tried to bite you and throw things

OP, you wrote that you don’t know what triggers ds’s tantrums.

Is it possible that the trigger is having his feelings invalidated or not acknowledged? Can the tantrum be an attempt to get you to understand how sad and angry he feels?

Again, I’m not judging you. Maybe you do acknowledge his feelings a lot, but this is an extremely sensitive kid who just needs tons and tons of extra tlc. Hth.

amother

Pearl

Mon, Oct 02 2017, 9:09 pm

Laiya wrote:

This.
I also have a 5 year old son.
Motze Y"K, I came home with him from the shuhl accross our home. Suddenly, he takes his hand out of mine and tells me I want to pick up totty from the mens shuhl. A minute later my husband came home and we made havdala right away so everyone can break the fast. My 5 year old was not here yet.
When my husband was just about finishing havdala, he walks in, sees we are in middle of havdala already and throws a tantrum. I. Could. Not. Calm. This. Child. Down.
I tried holding him soothing him explaining why we didnt wait because the fasters were hungry. Nothing helped. He kicked and beat me and everyone else. He was angry.
I could not understand, what bothers him? So he didnt hear havdala, big deal!!!

Then....
Half an hour later when we were all sitting by the meal, he blurts out; I brought the bsamim home from shuhl!! Now none of you are getting it because you didnt wait for me!

Oh-kay!!

I had no clue that he saw my older son taking along the bsamim to shuhl in the morning.
I had no idea he remembered to look for it at night while my older son totally forgot about it.
I had no idea what his intentions were.
I had no idea whats doing in his little head. Thankfully, he revealed it to me.

I asked him;
Thats why you were so upset? Yes.
You thought we were waiting for the bsamim? Yes.
You thought we will wait for you? Yes.
Were you hurt when you saw we didnt wait for you? Yes.
Where did you feel the hurt? He shows; in my eyes.
Do you know we didn't sniff bsamim this week because we didnt find it? Do you know what a big favor this is? Thank you!!! You remembered!! Look how much you care! Wow!!
Do you want us to make havdala again just for you? And everyone else will just sniff? Yes.
Ok. You will say a bracha because totty said it already.
We went back into the kitchen, made havdala again, sniffed bsamim, he drank the grape juice and we lived happily ever after.

I thought this was a typical tantrum. It was not. This was a small child, living in his reality, not knowing how to communicate his message.