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When is it ok to Guilt?



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amother
Amber


 

Post Mon, Oct 09 2017, 9:41 pm
Second night y"t, ds 10 did not want to wash for the meal (or eat the meal). Said he wasn’t hungry. That was FINE with me.

A relative, who was staying with us for y”t, disagreed and told ds that he should wash.

What really bothered me is the way this relative said it. “Even if your body isn’t hungry, your neshama is hungry for mitzvos. Even if your tummy doesn’t want food, your neshama wants you to wash. You should wash, and have challah, even if you’re not hungry, to make your neshama happy and say brachos.”

In the past, this relative has defended her views on the use of guilt in chinuch, by saying that guilt is a good way to motivate behavior.

I very strongly disagree, but I'm having trouble articulating why.

Does guilt have a place in parenting?
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 09 2017, 9:43 pm
No.
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 09 2017, 9:59 pm
Private conversation, as soon as you can take her aside:

"Relative, sadly, in this day and age, we feel it is very important for children to learn to trust themselves and their bodies. So I'm going to ask you not to tell DS what his neshama wants, and how he shouldn't listen to his body. It's fine to express it positively by saying, 'please join us for the mitzvah of washing and bentching in the sukkah, even if all you take is a small bite.'. But we feel it is better for his connection to yiddishkeit in the long run not to push him too hard on this now, and certainly not by implying he should ignore his body signals."
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 09 2017, 10:08 pm
Boy would thT relative piss me off...
Never okay to guilt.
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Rachel Shira




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 09 2017, 10:21 pm
Not okay to guilt, or to undermine a parent's decision.
Good for you for not making these things a struggle with your son.
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amother
Amber


 

Post Mon, Oct 09 2017, 10:47 pm
Thank you ladies for the responses and validation.

Imasinger, that's an excellent point and I think part of why I was so bothered by the comment. I was actually happy that ds recognized on his own that he wasn't hungry! Your response is perfect.

Is there a good way to explain, in general, why guilting is wrong?
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amother
Cyan


 

Post Mon, Oct 09 2017, 10:48 pm
amother wrote:
Second night y"t, ds 10 did not want to wash for the meal (or eat the meal). Said he wasn’t hungry. That was FINE with me.

A relative, who was staying with us for y”t, disagreed and told ds that he should wash.

What really bothered me is the way this relative said it. “Even if your body isn’t hungry, your neshama is hungry for mitzvos. Even if your tummy doesn’t want food, your neshama wants you to wash. You should wash, and have challah, even if you’re not hungry, to make your neshama happy and say brachos.”

In the past, this relative has defended her views on the use of guilt in chinuch, by saying that guilt is a good way to motivate behavior.

I very strongly disagree, but I'm having trouble articulating why.

Does guilt have a place in parenting?



I don't really see this line of coaxing as guilting. It seems more like she was trying to persuade the child to eat. Maybe you can say the relative is out of line getting involved in the eating habits of your child, but I don't see guilting here. I think of guilting as a parent telling a child "it's ok you didn't clean your room. My back is hurting but I'm sure 10 minutes on my hands and knees in your room won't be terrible. Sigh."
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tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 09 2017, 11:29 pm
Eating when you are full is not considered eating for a mitzvah anyways according to halakha
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amother
Amber


 

Post Mon, Oct 09 2017, 11:54 pm
tichellady wrote:
Eating when you are full is not considered eating for a mitzvah anyways according to halakha


Interesting. Not sure about y"t, but aren't we required to eat 3 meals on shabbos?
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 09 2017, 11:58 pm
amother wrote:

Is there a good way to explain, in general, why guilting is wrong?


I don't think so.

Not unless you're giving advice to a younger generation, and they are inclined to listen to it.

But under most circumstances, it's rude to tell your elders that they are wrong.

File it under "incurable, endurable."
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tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 10 2017, 12:32 am
amother wrote:
Interesting. Not sure about y"t, but aren't we required to eat 3 meals on shabbos?


Yes but it’s not considered eating if it’s achila gasa ( gluttonous). You shouldn’t be eating such big meals that you can’t eat 3 a day and if you are very full it’s no longer a mitzvah to eat. If for whatever reason you have no appetite it’s not a halakhic option to force yourself to eat ( except maybe for the Korban pesach and nowadays matzah and wine at the Seder )
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amother
Amber


 

Post Tue, Oct 10 2017, 1:25 am
imasinger wrote:
I don't think so.

Not unless you're giving advice to a younger generation, and they are inclined to listen to it.

But under most circumstances, it's rude to tell your elders that they are wrong.

File it under "incurable, endurable."


I hear
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amother
Amber


 

Post Tue, Oct 10 2017, 1:26 am
tichellady wrote:
Yes but it’s not considered eating if it’s achila gasa ( gluttonous). You shouldn’t be eating such big meals that you can’t eat 3 a day and if you are very full it’s no longer a mitzvah to eat. If for whatever reason you have no appetite it’s not a halakhic option to force yourself to eat ( except maybe for the Korban pesach and nowadays matzah and wine at the Seder )


I did not know that, thank you
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amother
Blue


 

Post Tue, Oct 10 2017, 8:21 am
I think rather than focusing on how to explain to her that her philosophy is wrong (which is generally a lost cause, as it's something most people are not willing to hear), I'd focus on standing up for your right to make your own parenting decisions. You made a decision about your child that you were going to let something slide. Unless what you're letting slide is hurting someone else, that's your call to make and it's not ok for someone else to go over your head like that. I'd say, I appreciate your concern, but I have made my decision about how to handle this and its not right for you to interfere.
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