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Public school in brooklyn
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 05 2017, 11:56 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
The last Atlantic Monthly magazine that I read - I canceled my subscription immediately after this article - discussed the issues confronting teens all across the US. One of the biggest issues is "s*xting" and/or girls sending pictures to their b/f's, who then pass them around to their friends. The article mentioned that this is so prevalent that the schools and police are at a loss as to how to deal with this. This is prevalent in every city, and town, in the US. This article also discussed other issues between teens - if I remember correctly, it was in this issue that I learned about "rainbow parties" - and, no, I am NOT going to explain that term.

The average age of relations may be 17, but this is referring to something specific, only. If you are ok with everything UP to that, that's your call.

Edit:
The Atlantic Monthly article I am referring to was November 2014. It is archived on their website. Only read this article if you are VERY sure you want to read about this.

If you look at the CDC report, you can see that there is quite a bit of variation of the first age of zxual intercourse based on religion, level of parental education, race, etc.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/.....5.pdf

I did read the Atlantic article when it came out back in 2014. I agree it was deeply disturbing.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ma.....0798/

Then again, I also read articles when I was in high school about teen drinking and what a problem it was, and my friends and I never drank.

I maintain that within a high school there are many sub-groups, and it is possible to insulate yourself from negative influences to a great extent by hanging out with like-minded kids.
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Amarante




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 05 2017, 6:31 pm
The article is alarmist because, as pointed out by DrMom, it is just an "average" and doesn't take into account socio-economic factors.

Among the children of my secular friends, all of them are what would be called good kids. They are hell bent on getting into a good college and working hard towards that goal and aren't out drinking and sexting and having illegitimate babies. The culture actually among a lot of them doesn't really favor "dating" but rather going out in a pack of kids. For most secular kids I am familiar with, their first s-xual activity is in college.

It's like citing a statistic in which x% of babies are born out of wedlock. A meaningless statistic because the percentage of illegitimate children born to college educated women is lower just as rates of opioid addiction are lower among the middle and upper middle class.

If one is sending a child to a public elementary school which draws from a middle class pool, the children and parents are going to be sectarian but mensches. That may or may not be an issue but these elementary schools aren't dens of iniquity for the most part - especially in a city like NY where certain neighborhood schools are excellent (depending on the neighborhood) or a resourceful parent can locate a magnet or charter school if they find the neighborhood school to be lacking.

Even at the high school level, if one is attending a magnet high school, charter high school or is in one of the tracks for academic/college bound, the students are not going to be what seems to be some kind of stereotype of sectarian kids and families engaging in orgies and gang banging :-)
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 10 2017, 11:05 am
amother wrote:
Alright, time to chime in with my opinion...

As someone raised in the secular world and having gone through public school until I left at the end of 11th grade, I can tell you that no savings in the world are worth putting a Jewish child into a public school -- especially one that is already frum.

I've been in multiple public schools due to family relocation, and in each and every one I have seen such depravity. I've had great teachers and a good education, but the nature of public school is to be very open and permissible to a fault.

In public school, it is NORMAL for children as young as 7 to have "boyfriends" and "girlfriends" and experiment with other-gender physical contact. By the age of 12 or 13, many children have already "done it." And yes, s-x ed IS about teaching exactly how the reproductive organs work, down to the very act of having children put condoms on bananas. Don't kid yourself by pretending that the secular world shelters children from a young age.
For even greater s-x ed, just walk the back hallways of any highschool. There you'll get a full education!

Nowadays, it's going to get even worse, with schools being required to promote same-gender relations as normal and accepted.

Now let's talk cruelty:
In public school, you have children coming many various backgrounds, often times gang backgrounds, in which they've learned that being the roughest, toughest is the way to succeed. Even the "better" kids often have a clic-ish mentality that looks down upon anyone not uber pretty, muscular or rich. Children have no problem to verbally abuse other kids on a daily basis. Of course, there are good kids too, but those are usually the ones that are being abused!

Ever heard of phasing? Just to give you an idea of what "accepted" mentality is the minds of many American teenagers. (This applies specifically to college, but teens know about this as well, and many have tried it.) In order to become part of the "in-crowd", wanna-bes have to go through phasing, which can be anything from having their heads submerged in a bucket of feces to eating live cochroaches. Yeah. These are the kids you might be sending your precious neshama to school with.

Not only that, but do you really expect a young Jewish child to NOT develop crushes on girls/boys they are in class with, regardless of religious affiliation? Taking a child out of a yeshiva to put them into public school to save money sends the child the message that Yiddishkeit is worth a certain price. Who said he can't put his own price on Yiddishkeit as well?
A pretty blonde girl that just happens to be Catholic... Well, you know, the price of love overcomes all...

My dear, daven, daven your heart out. Go knocking on doors and start collecting. Sell your jewelry. Get down on your knees and grovel with the administration, but don't take your kid out of yeshiva.

Take it from someone who knows.

And btw, the reason I left to get my GED at age 14 was due to the utter depravity I witnessed in public school. I didn't want to be in the environment anymore. And I wasn't yet religious.



I haven't posted for a real long time because it was getting too stressful. However, this topic forced me out of semi-retirement
Both I and my husband went to public school. While there definitely was a fair amount of bullying and antisemitism, it wasn't targeted at specific individuals. Many threads I read here seem to imply that the poorest and most vulnerable are harassed by both the kids and the adults ( who in theory, are supposed to protect them). Another serious problem is that, at least when you experience it in PS , you grow knowing that we are in golus, and unfortunately, some non-jews can be very mean. If the bullies come from families that are allegedly frummer than yours, what message do you walk away with..
For example, my son originally was in several schools in Lakewood. There was always an issue with bullies. In fact, even in shul, there were numerous incidents.
When my son was 5, in holy Skvere shtibl, a bunch of boys locked him in a room downstairs. In holy Satmar, on Simchas Torah, he was pushed down the stairs, in another shul, a few boys hit him with a mop. In ZS, someone put his head in the toilet. He went to a yeshiva hs, for 2 years, got an awful education both LK and secular studies and the students were atrocious for the most part. On his own, he switched to a specialized Public School that gives a very solid computer/engineering curriculum. In Public School, today, at least in upper middle-class neighborhoods there is a zero-tolerance policy in place in regard to bullys.
BH, my son is 22 now and excelling in college in Israel. He says he never goes to Charedi neighborhoods because it would trigger his PTSD.
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amother
Denim


 

Post Sat, Oct 14 2017, 8:41 pm
AMI magazine had an article on a new organization called Kochavim that helps in situations like these. Give them a call. Maybe they can help with tuition.

718-578-1057
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amother
Indigo


 

Post Sat, Oct 14 2017, 9:58 pm
naturalmom5 wrote:
I haven't posted for a real long time because it was getting too stressful. However, this topic forced me out of semi-retirement
Both I and my husband went to public school. While there definitely was a fair amount of bullying and antisemitism, it wasn't targeted at specific individuals. Many threads I read here seem to imply that the poorest and most vulnerable are harassed by both the kids and the adults ( who in theory, are supposed to protect them). Another serious problem is that, at least when you experience it in PS , you grow knowing that we are in golus, and unfortunately, some non-jews can be very mean. If the bullies come from families that are allegedly frummer than yours, what message do you walk away with..
For example, my son originally was in several schools in Lakewood. There was always an issue with bullies. In fact, even in shul, there were numerous incidents.
When my son was 5, in holy Skvere shtibl, a bunch of boys locked him in a room downstairs. In holy Satmar, on Simchas Torah, he was pushed down the stairs, in another shul, a few boys hit him with a mop. In ZS, someone put his head in the toilet. He went to a yeshiva hs, for 2 years, got an awful education both LK and secular studies and the students were atrocious for the most part. On his own, he switched to a specialized Public School that gives a very solid computer/engineering curriculum. In Public School, today, at least in upper middle-class neighborhoods there is a zero-tolerance policy in place in regard to bullys.
BH, my son is 22 now and excelling in college in Israel. He says he never goes to Charedi neighborhoods because it would trigger his PTSD.


I shiver as I read your post as my child has had his share of bullying and just sheer craziness in chareidi schools and he is only in third grade...

are you saying that public school (or specialized school) is better than a yeshiva if such things are going on. I am asking your opinion...

I also live in Israel so it would be very very complicated here...
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ProudMommie




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Oct 14 2017, 10:19 pm
amother wrote:
Alright, time to chime in with my opinion...

As someone raised in the secular world and having gone through public school until I left at the end of 11th grade, I can tell you that no savings in the world are worth putting a Jewish child into a public school -- especially one that is already frum.

I've been in multiple public schools due to family relocation, and in each and every one I have seen such depravity. I've had great teachers and a good education, but the nature of public school is to be very open and permissible to a fault.

In public school, it is NORMAL for children as young as 7 to have "boyfriends" and "girlfriends" and experiment with other-gender physical contact. By the age of 12 or 13, many children have already "done it." And yes, s-x ed IS about teaching exactly how the reproductive organs work, down to the very act of having children put condoms on bananas. Don't kid yourself by pretending that the secular world shelters children from a young age.
For even greater s-x ed, just walk the back hallways of any highschool. There you'll get a full education!

Nowadays, it's going to get even worse, with schools being required to promote same-gender relations as normal and accepted.

Now let's talk cruelty:
In public school, you have children coming many various backgrounds, often times gang backgrounds, in which they've learned that being the roughest, toughest is the way to succeed. Even the "better" kids often have a clic-ish mentality that looks down upon anyone not uber pretty, muscular or rich. Children have no problem to verbally abuse other kids on a daily basis. Of course, there are good kids too, but those are usually the ones that are being abused!

Ever heard of phasing? Just to give you an idea of what "accepted" mentality is the minds of many American teenagers. (This applies specifically to college, but teens know about this as well, and many have tried it.) In order to become part of the "in-crowd", wanna-bes have to go through phasing, which can be anything from having their heads submerged in a bucket of feces to eating live cochroaches. Yeah. These are the kids you might be sending your precious neshama to school with.

Not only that, but do you really expect a young Jewish child to NOT develop crushes on girls/boys they are in class with, regardless of religious affiliation? Taking a child out of a yeshiva to put them into public school to save money sends the child the message that Yiddishkeit is worth a certain price. Who said he can't put his own price on Yiddishkeit as well?
A pretty blonde girl that just happens to be Catholic... Well, you know, the price of love overcomes all...

My dear, daven, daven your heart out. Go knocking on doors and start collecting. Sell your jewelry. Get down on your knees and grovel with the administration, but don't take your kid out of yeshiva.

Take it from someone who knows.

And btw, the reason I left to get my GED at age 14 was due to the utter depravity I witnessed in public school. I didn't want to be in the environment anymore. And I wasn't yet religious.


as a bt also, I can relate SO much. I also went thru this Gehenom and only later I understood -- in graduate school-- when I was in an NYU writing program probably the epicenter of depravity-- that I wanted to escape somewhere to save my eyes and ears. I understood it though I was completely secular. To put my children in public school is not an option despite all the terrible issues in yeshivas... I honestly can say that I have NO idea what the answer is, but public school is not the answer for a frum child and it never will be no matter what anyone says. There are plenty of places all over the US and NY is too insane $$ anyways, though I am from there and love it there too lol However, I refuse parnassa to take over my WHOLE life in order to afford "in-town"...
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Oct 14 2017, 10:28 pm
amother wrote:
Ever heard of phasing? Just to give you an idea of what "accepted" mentality is the minds of many American teenagers. (This applies specifically to college, but teens know about this as well, and many have tried it.) In order to become part of the "in-crowd", wanna-bes have to go through phasing, which can be anything from having their heads submerged in a bucket of feces to eating live cochroaches. Yeah. These are the kids you might be sending your precious neshama to school with.


I attended public school, K-12, and secular universities. I have never heard of anything so depraved as what you described here.

To imply that this is anything close to the normal course of events at any public institution of learning in the US is deeply misleading and slanderous.

Please provide evidence that this is a common or even remotely common activity.
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amother
Gray


 

Post Sat, Oct 14 2017, 10:43 pm
amother wrote:
...my child has had his share of bullying and just sheer craziness in chareidi schools and he is only in third grade...

are you saying that public school (or specialized school) is better than a yeshiva if such things are going on. I am asking your opinion...

I also live in Israel so it would be very very complicated here...


As far as I’m concerned, 1> it is your duty to protect your child from harm, whether that comes from a yeshiva or public school, and 2> As bad as public schools are, if it’s fellow Frum children (and through ignoring it, the teachers) harming your child, is that not the very definition of chillul haShem? Would you rather he see poor behavior from children that are supposed to treat be friends, or from children that don’t know any better? If

Of course, I’m not sure how this applies when in Israel.
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Sun, Oct 15 2017, 4:56 am
My grandchildren go to public schools on long island and have Hebrew tutors. They have minor learning issues that are being addressed. There is a strict no bullying policies in place. Never had any issues with kosher the teachers are extremely respectful of kosher issues .the kids love going to school. They feel safe and successful!
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