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What did Colonial Jews Eat?
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byisrael




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 09 2017, 3:26 am
MagentaYenta wrote:
The state of Rhode Island has a long history of Jews from colonial times. You may want to check historical resources based on geographic areas where Jews were actually present. Be aware the Jews of colonial America have little in common with the frum of today. And diet, everyones, depended on resources.

I've done a lot of research on Jews and the Westward Expansion and found that many Jewish communities and families kept excellent records. (This was of course, post colonial.)


I wish I could afford to travel to Mikveh Israel in Philadelphia, Touro synagogue in Newport....

Would be awesome!

Based on my reasearch I think the early american jews where probably most similar to secular "masorati" Israeli's today; none of the reform or conservative kefira but a very basic and low level of observance.
This is actually the basis for my storyline - my protaganist is exposed to authentic frum jewry in europe and tries and fails to start a "kiruv movement" in his very secularized, very "american" home town.....
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pknt




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 09 2017, 3:47 am
byisrael wrote:

This is actually the basis for my storyline - my protaganist is exposed to authentic frum jewry in europe and tries and fails to start a "kiruv movement" in his very secularized, very "american" home town.....

Sounds really interesting and original!

I'm also in the process of trying to write my first screenplay. But I chose a much easier setting of post WW2. I almost want to re-write it to take place in the 1800s. Very Happy Very Happy Tongue Out

No worries, I'd never do such a thing, I just wanted to prove how intrigued I am by the setting of your story!!! Wishing you lots of luck!
Keep us posted please!!
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 09 2017, 6:49 am
BYisrael I repeat, wow, totally up my alley!!
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byisrael




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 09 2017, 12:29 pm
Thanks KeeGay and Ruchel for the interest - I thought I was the only weird one who found this kind of thing interesting....

Who knows maybe I will actually finish it one day...
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samantha87




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 09 2017, 1:46 pm
r_ch wrote:
Ladies, really? In the suggested amazon American book there are recipes of oysters. I looked inside and first was taken aback with 'musts' on a breakfast table including roast and butter. OK, I thought first it's either or. But then, look up the contents, it's oysters and what not. Or could 'oysters, stewed' mean something else?
Edited for the question.


Yes, oysters means something else. The full book is available online here: https://books.google.com/books.....false

Oysters (p.82) means something made from boiled corn, and oyster (p.150) means a root that looks like a parsnip.
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 09 2017, 1:52 pm
byisrael wrote:
I wish I could afford to travel to Mikveh Israel in Philadelphia, Touro synagogue in Newport....

Would be awesome!

Based on my reasearch I think the early american jews where probably most similar to secular "masorati" Israeli's today; none of the reform or conservative kefira but a very basic and low level of observance.
This is actually the basis for my storyline - my protaganist is exposed to authentic frum jewry in europe and tries and fails to start a "kiruv movement" in his very secularized, very "american" home town.....


I'm interested in your sources. They must be very convincing for you to make such a posit. I'd love a link/s to some sources that helped you form this opinion.
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byisrael




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 10 2017, 3:22 am
MagentaYenta wrote:
I'm interested in your sources. They must be very convincing for you to make such a posit. I'd love a link/s to some sources that helped you form this opinion.


There is tons of material on this- some things that popped into my head without opening my notes...

Record book of Rev. Jacob Raphael Cohen
https://www.amazon.com/record-.....DVADG

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrar.....eixas\

This is a bit later but on the same vein
http://americanjewisharchives......n.pdf
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 10 2017, 2:54 pm
byisrael wrote:
There is tons of material on this- some things that popped into my head without opening my notes...

Record book of Rev. Jacob Raphael Cohen
https://www.amazon.com/record-.....DVADG

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrar.....eixas\

This is a bit later but on the same vein
http://americanjewisharchives......n.pdf


How did you manage to get a copy of the Cohen book? Is there a link to an online copy? There is nothing to indicate that it references the colonial period of US history. Your second reference has nothing to do with food or what colonial Jews ate. Did you just extrapolate your position? Same could be said with the third reference.

Frankly I just can't see how these three references can lead you to the conclusions you have arrived at. Intellectually it is a challenge for me to understand how you reached your conclusions.

The Seixas reference is interesting since his relative Rachel Franks married Hyam Solomon. Rachel could give an accurate accounting of what Jews ate while serving in the colonial army but her letters are nowhere to be found. I should think her husband could also be counted on to relate what he ate while in the company of Washington but that too is lost to history.

You may get lucky doing some research on Asher Levy, he was the first kosher butcher in New Amsterdam serving the community of 23 Jews. Although there are no census records for that time there are some community registers that may be accessible via Family Search.org or Ancestry.com that would lead you to Jewish merchants who served the community. AJHS (American Jewish Historical Society) is also an excellent source that has been helpful to me in the past. They have a number of collections online and are really helpful if you call or email them.
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byisrael




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 10 2017, 4:28 pm
Based on my reasearch I think the early american jews where probably most similar to secular "masorati" Israeli's today

Hey this is an opinion based on what I have read so far - doesn't have to do with the food per say, just my general impression of the general level of observance.

You are right that Issac Lesser was from a much later time period (during the german migration and the begining of the eastern european migration), I still think his work is reflective on the observanse in the time my prtagonist story takes place (1803-1815).

The time period my story takes place is NOT colonial - it is early america. The reason I was looking for colonial food is beause once you start looking for American Jewish food in the 19th century all the eastern european and german cuisine is what comes up. My character comes from a family of
spanish - portuguese descent which is why I am looking into food from the colonial period when they were the majority of the american jewish population.
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byisrael




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 10 2017, 4:42 pm
MagentaYenta wrote:
How did you manage to get a copy of the Cohen book? Is there a link to an online copy?


The Hebrew U library has a coby of the Cohen book.

Your right, the sources I quickly linked really give much about anything. I've been doing a TON of reading (at Hebrew U) and everything I have seen seems to point at a very traditional, proud to be jewish, but not very learned jewish community.

Some of the books I read;
American Jewish History by Jeffrey S. Gurock
A Time for Planting: The First Migration (I think Eli Farber?)
The Jews in Colonial America (don't remember the author)
The Colonial American Jew ( I think Jacobd Raber Marcus)

Mikveh Yisrael and Shearith Yisrael had some info on the website's, I emailed them and the sent me a couple of articles.

AJHS is a good idea - I actually tried to go last time I was in the staes, didn't work out because of time constraints.
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byisrael




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 10 2017, 4:46 pm
Also remember this is for a novel - not a history book. I'm not doing my PHD or anything....

I think it's fine for me to form an opinion based on what I read, even if that opinion shapes the way I describe my characters in a novel I will never publish Smile

This is my way of relieving stress - reasearch + writing.....
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 10 2017, 4:46 pm
MagentaYenta wrote:
How did you manage to get a copy of the Cohen book? Is there a link to an online copy? There is nothing to indicate that it references the colonial period of US history. Your second reference has nothing to do with food or what colonial Jews ate. Did you just extrapolate your position? Same could be said with the third reference.

Frankly I just can't see how these three references can lead you to the conclusions you have arrived at. Intellectually it is a challenge for me to understand how you reached your conclusions.

The Seixas reference is interesting since his relative Rachel Franks married Hyam Solomon. Rachel could give an accurate accounting of what Jews ate while serving in the colonial army but her letters are nowhere to be found. I should think her husband could also be counted on to relate what he ate while in the company of Washington but that too is lost to history.

You may get lucky doing some research on Asher Levy, he was the first kosher butcher in New Amsterdam serving the community of 23 Jews. Although there are no census records for that time there are some community registers that may be accessible via Family Search.org or Ancestry.com that would lead you to Jewish merchants who served the community. AJHS (American Jewish Historical Society) is also an excellent source that has been helpful to me in the past. They have a number of collections online and are really helpful if you call or email them.


Or researching the Gratz family. Among other things, they sold kosher meat to the West Indies in the 18th century. (And, of course, Rebecca Gratz is said to be the model for Rebecca in Ivanhoe.)
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MagentaYenta




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 10 2017, 5:23 pm
byisrael wrote:
The Hebrew U library has a coby of the Cohen book.

Your right, the sources I quickly linked really give much about anything. I've been doing a TON of reading (at Hebrew U) and everything I have seen seems to point at a very traditional, proud to be jewish, but not very learned jewish community.

Some of the books I read;
American Jewish History by Jeffrey S. Gurock
A Time for Planting: The First Migration (I think Eli Farber?)
The Jews in Colonial America (don't remember the author)
The Colonial American Jew ( I think Jacobd Raber Marcus)

Mikveh Yisrael and Shearith Yisrael had some info on the website's, I emailed them and the sent me a couple of articles.

AJHS is a good idea - I actually tried to go last time I was in the staes, didn't work out because of time constraints.


A Time to Plant was written by James Farmer, it's pretty much a go to book for southern gardening.


I have to give you props, I have a rather extensive library on the history of Jews in America but you seem to be able to or can afford to access some rather rare and out of print books. Good for you!!

I'm personally picky about history simply because when it is inaccurate there are lots of people will take it on faith that it's true. I find this the case in many poorly edited volumes where the author and the editor have little interest in continuity or actual research.

A big thanks to Six of Wands, I'd quite forgotten about the Gratz family. The Simon's and Gratz families have given Jews a great gift of history. So much of their lives and works are documented.


Last edited by MagentaYenta on Tue, Oct 10 2017, 6:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 10 2017, 6:03 pm
byisrael wrote:
I'm researching for a book that I am trying to write....

I tried researching spanish-portuguese/british jewish cuisine because colonial jews usually came from those places but I haven't come up with much (actually did you know fish n' chips is a jewish invention)

Specifically I would like to know what the shabbat food looked like....

I am trying to be as historically accurate as possible....


While most colonial Jews were Sephardic, there were Ashkenazim. The first Ashkenazic shul in the US was founded in 1795 -- Rodeph Shalom. It still exists, but is now Reform. (The current building, built in the early 1870s, is magnificent.

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r_ch




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 10 2017, 8:24 pm
samantha87 wrote:
Yes, oysters means something else. The full book is available online here: https://books.google.com/books.....false

Oysters (p.82) means something made from boiled corn, and oyster (p.150) means a root that looks like a parsnip.


Thanks a lot! P. 82 I figured but 150 didn't, thanks.
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animeme




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 19 2017, 10:45 am
Just found my copy of Jewish Cooking in America. The index shows multiple references to colonial Jews. It talks about what was available with the Triangle trade and local offerings, how they cooked "Jewish style" with olive oil vs lard, the Sephard heritage, the use of fish due to lack of butchers, etc. There's good stuff but not a huge amount- maybe check to see if your library has it.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 19 2017, 11:24 am
I would totally buy this book, ESPECIALLY if there was a recipe collection in the back!

I'm both a foodie and a history buff, but I tend to focus more on medieval times. SCA and all that, but from a Jewish perspective.
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animeme




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 19 2017, 11:30 am
FF, it's full of recipes, most of which are practical adaptations of historical recipes. There are historical introductions to the recipes as well sidebar pages about the relevant times and places.
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