Heimish Workplaces and Double Standards

watergirl

Tue, Nov 07 2017, 6:47 am

This has been on my mind for a while, and maybe this thread should be in the “interesting discussions” forum, but I put it here.

People want to work in a heimish office. Post on imamother things like “how much can a married woman with 5 kids expect to be paid in Xxx frum town”. Or “husband with 7 kids just entering work force, no experince, how mych can he get paid”, implying that the number of children is all the qualification he needs to take a larger salary than any other applicant with zero experience. And then the complaints come in. Complaints that men are paid more. And the same people who complain that men are paid more happen to enjoy their higher salary due to being a “married woman”, in quotes because we all know that a “single girl” can be older and more qualified than the “women” and yet is paid less in a heimish office. And heimish offices are great because you can be paid under the table, but are then upset because they dont “help out” with health insurance, paid time off, or baby sitting. You cant have your cake and eat it too. Want a place that makes fair rules and then plays by them? Go work in an non heimish office. Its very sad to say.

I have long been vocal about not working for these types of places. Why? I’ve seen for myself how they work and how I’ve been treated. Its deplorable! But without a simple BA degree, where could I get better? With 3 kids, a full time job and a part time job, I went to night school, got a BA (liberal arts, many poopoo it but it was what I could reach for), and took a job in a non frum, non heimish office. The pay was less than I wanted but I was treated like a human for the first time. Paid on time. Ect. And the day I got my degree, I got a very substantial raise. Why? Because offices will pay more when you have one.

Bottom line - you have to go out of your comfort zone when your family needs you! It may take pushing yourself for college. It may mean a bus ride out of your immediate city. Yes, it takes babysitting. And it will pay off. Before you know it, the job that you had barely covered the cost of babysitting has promoted you and not it more than covers the cost of babysitting. Work where you are treated fairly!

And before this post starts getting comments from people who work in these types of offices and are treated fairly, you know that this post is not for you. You are the exception. Or you are just happy with your place on the totem pole.

amother

Crimson

Tue, Nov 07 2017, 7:10 am

Maybe for you, your experience in heimish office wasnt good, but dont be naive. This happens in nomfrum or non jewish offices too. Just like some have good experiences in heimish offices and some have bad experiences, so too in non jewish or non frum offices.

In my non frum non jewish office, we all get same salary But SOME CAN DO LESS DUTIES FOR SAME PAY AS OTHERS. There is favoritsm based on ethnicity and connections. Also, for opportunities to work overtime and earn more, there is favoritism as to who gets those opportunities. Im not treated well but stay bc I need money to pay my bills.

Everyone has different experiences. But to say that "just work in non heimish office, youll be treated right and everything is fair/equal" is incorrect. There is favoritism everywhere and the bosses/"higher ups" get to decide who to give more duties to, who gets more flexibility, who gets the better hours/schedule, who is treated with respect and support, and who is constantly criticized and micromanaged, who gets the better work envirobment/more resources....even if the pay is the same

amother

Magenta

Tue, Nov 07 2017, 7:24 am

amother wrote:

Agreed. I've only worked in frum professional offices. Anything written about, getting paid under the table, making health insurance work, married people get paid more etc. was unheard of.
My DH on the other hand works for a non Jewish firm and he is miserable. They don't respect the fact that Yom Tov falls out mid week. There is no understanding of leaving before 5:00 on Friday afternoon. He is underpaid and undervalued and he is not treated well. And that's the real professional place that only accepts applicants with degrees. This firm started out with a frum owner and the employees including the non Jews were much happier then they are now under the new ownership.
I love that my office is all frum and "heimish". Our kids have the same school schedules. We all have our holidays at the same time (including the boss. When one makes a simcha we all feel that simcha. When someone has a simcha in my DH's multi denominational work place there is no genuine warmth and joy for the other.
So there is are other good reasons to work for a frum boss in a frum environment and it does not include any of the reasons mentioned in the original post.

watergirl

Tue, Nov 07 2017, 7:37 am

Again, I’m referring to the way that people complain about the double standards that they do not like. But then there double standards that work for them that they do like. And that you cant have it all. Of course I cant have it all in my job either. And thats not the point. My main point was the pay scale, and how it’s often discriminatory, and people only seem to care when it affects them. When you work in a non heimish office, you are welcome to open an official EEO complaint Or even a lawsuit if you feel it’s warranted. And nobody is ever forcing anybody to keep a job they don’t like.

I was also careful to use the word “heimish”, not “frum” when referring to work places because I do not believe that the two words connotate the same type of environment.

Last edited by watergirl on Tue, Nov 07 2017, 7:51 am; edited 1 time in total

mommy3b2c

Tue, Nov 07 2017, 7:50 am

watergirl wrote:

I’m glad you made the distinction between frum and “heimish.” I’m sure you know that there are many frum bosses that don’t run their offices the way you describe. My husband being one frum man who runs his office in a strictly professional manner. Probably more then half of his employees are not even Jewish and everyone gets treated professionally and with respect.

watergirl

Tue, Nov 07 2017, 7:53 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

Thanks. Of course there are some frum offices who are as professional as they come. And no one would imagine telling the boss “I am getting married, I deserve a pay raise”. But these threads that referred to the other kind of office make me crazy, and I really don’t understand why people put up with it but they complain.

mommy3b2c

Tue, Nov 07 2017, 8:15 am

watergirl wrote:

Lol. If someone told my husband that, he would probably fire them on the spot. He purposely schedules interviews with frum people on Friday afternoons because he wants to weed out who is serious about work and who tells him that they cant come because Friday is erev shabbos. If you make an excuse, then your interview is over before it started. That’s just the way it is.