5 year old dd told to undress by older boy!

amother

Cerise

Sun, Nov 12 2017, 12:26 pm

Our 5 year old dd today told my dh that on Shabbat an 8 year old boy from our neighborhood took her behind a building and asked her to take her skirt and underwear off to see her private parts. He offered to show her his in return. Our daughter wasn't very clear about how much they actually showed to each other or if they touched. We live in a religious neighborhood in Israel and are friends with the boy's parents. Our daughter and sons frequently play with that boy. Children of all ages play here in the streets together on Shabbat, usually with little to no supervision. What would you do? First time something like that happened to us - not sure how to react.

amother

Cyan

Sun, Nov 12 2017, 1:02 pm

Normal kids don't do this. The older boy was abused and either isn't getting therapy or isn't healed yet from therapy. Bring it up with his mother and suggest she gets an evaluation for her son. Do not allow your daughter to play unsupervised, especially not with this boy. Tell your daughter how no one is ever allowed to touch her or make her undress or feel uncomfortable and she did the right thing to tell you what happened. Tell her you are speaking to the boys mother because it seems like he needs help learning what is appropriate.

amother

Black

Sun, Nov 12 2017, 1:06 pm

First, don't be too worried, she isn't the first to play the "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" game, and she won't be the last.

Second, use this time to teach her all about body safety. That no one should touch or look at her in the places covered by a bathing suit because that part of her bodybos private only for her. That she should say "no!" and come home right away and tell Mommy and Totty if someone asks her. That her body is special and private, so she needs to tell others to back off if they try to tell her to do something uncomfortable with her body.

Last, SUPERVISE YOUR KIDS. If someone can ask your five year old to go behind a building to do anything, that is a warning sign that the culture is too permissive. They are your kids, you hold the strings, so you decide how much supervision they need!

amother

Cyan

Sun, Nov 12 2017, 1:23 pm

amother wrote:

Children of all ages play here in the streets together on Shabbat, usually with little to no supervision.

Just because the majority of a society have misplaced trust because people look "chareidi" does not mean you have to buy in to it. A 5 year old cannot play unsupervised, period. I don't care what is socially appropriate. There are bad people in the world, and they know darn well which neighborhoods are the most vulnerable. The charedi neighborhoods mostly have large families, minimal supervision from about age 3, terrible school security, and low income. Add to that, a society that doesn't want to be "moser," doesn't trust the police, doesn't believe in therapy, is terrified of stigma... Abuse is rampant in Eretz Yisroel and the perpetrators know that chareidim are the easiest targets. To ignore this fact and allow your children to be unsupervised is idiocy.

Not all abuse is preventable, but this uncomfortable encounter (which was not abuse) your daughter was in should have been. The boy was most definitely a victim and this is his unresolved feelings coming out. Just pray to G-d that his mother will be strong enough to deal with this head on and not follow the trend of the general Israel charedim...

Signed,
burned by trust.

Last edited by amother on Sun, Nov 12 2017, 1:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Seagreen

Sun, Nov 12 2017, 1:28 pm

amother wrote:

I don't know what "normal kids" mean to you.
But according to my definition of normal, a lot of normal kids do that...

amother

Cyan

Sun, Nov 12 2017, 1:41 pm

from dr sears:
What’s normal? General Curiosity. Children are curious, especially about differences, and what could be more fascinating than different genitals? Understand this situation for what it is—normal childhood curiosity at work. It needs sensitive understanding to prevent it from reoccurring. Get behind the eyes of your child. He wants to learn what the other relations looks and feels like. The child is more interested in satisfying curiosity than in s-xual arousal. You can tell innocent s-xual curiosity from deviant s-xual behavior by these characteristics. Innocent acts are occurring when:

Children are young (under age seven), close in age, and know each other.
There is mutual agreement; one child is not forcing the other.
There is usually a game-like atmosphere: playing “doctor” or “I’ll show you mine if you show me yours.”
Secrecy is part of the game. As if sensing their parents would disapprove, children retreat into a bedroom, garage, or a private place. (This is true for deviant acts as well.)
When relations play is not normal. How do you tell when the line has been crossed from innocent, childish curiosity that needs to be handled with understanding and explanations into abnormal behavior that needs serious attention? It’s important for parents to know how to tell when one child is victimizing another. Here are suspicious signs:

One child entices or forces the other into relations play.
There is an age difference of more than three years between children.
The relations play is not appropriate: for example, oral-genital contact between a six-year-old and a three-year-old.
The event occurs more than once despite your careful intervention and supervision. These are grounds to protect your child from another by terminating the friendship. If the relations play is between siblings, seek professional help.
If your child has been threatened to keep it a secret.
What to do. For the victimizer, seek professional counseling. It is often necessary to do a complete inventory of a child’s self-concept, home, and school environment. If your child is the victim, replay the “private parts” talk. Be sure that your child understands that he is not bad and his body is not bad but that it is wrong for one person to touch another’s private parts. The victim may also need professional counseling.

amother

Cerise

Sun, Nov 12 2017, 2:09 pm

Op here, thanks for all your replies. We'll definitely bring this up with the boy's parents. And keep our dd away from that boy as far as possible. I spoke to dd about what happened and she told me of an additional incident where the boy in question took her home to his house and there also asked to see and touch her privates and he encouraged another small boy who was there to touch her as well! Definitely red alert. We'll have to change our Shabbat routine and have the kids play only under supervision.

amother

Crimson

Sun, Nov 12 2017, 9:27 pm

I had a similar incident happen to my daughter and BH got advice from a couple different therapists and daas Torah . I'm going to share with you the advice I got:This is an extremely serious topic and cannot be treated lightly . This is not just a case of curiosity, or kids just being kids and playing.This must be addressed appropriately .The parents of the boy may get insulted, be in denial or any other excuse. Doesn't matter.Please ladies, I cannot say this enough. First and foremost you are a mother and your obligation is to protect your child. Please note that your daughter did a great thing by coming and telling you what happend to her. Please make sure you say that to her. Give her a big hug, look at her in the eye and say I am so proud of you for telling mommy . You know you can always come to me and tell me everything. Mommy will never get upset about anything you tell me ....probably the talk about safety would be appropriate after this. I felt I had to get help in how to deal with the situation and I'm so glad I did. I recommend you do the same thing. With proper guidence I yh you can turn this (although extremely uncomfortable experience ) to a positive very important lesson for life that can prevent Besrat Hashem future tragedies . May H guide you and may all our children be protected

DrMom

Mon, Nov 13 2017, 12:01 am

amother wrote:

You must be a first time mom for this. Older boy ,means a 12 year old. It is common for children to do it.
You have to explain to her on her level that it is not safe for her. Also you are very very lucky that your daughter told you because usually kids don't repeat these kind of things.
I would tell the parents so they tell their son and also their son knows your daughter is not a customer.

I'm not a first time mom, but I found this pretty disturbing.

I agree it is a good time to discuss this with your daughter in an age-appropriate, non-scary, non-blaming way.

amother

Floralwhite

Mon, Nov 13 2017, 1:02 am

amother wrote:

I don't know what "normal kids" mean to you.
But according to my definition of normal, a lot of normal kids do that...

Absolutely not! This may be the case for small children (3-5 years) when they first become aware that there are differences bigger than hair length and pink vs. blue. You often see this because of curiosity- relatively harmless, but should definitely be addressed.

But an 8 year old? They know that there is a difference, they have likely been told for years about privacy/ covering up. This screams red flag! Especially when asking a younger girl.

And since I just read below (let’s see if the edit comes up, I just posted), the boy is clearly a problem if he’s telling another boy to touch her?! Please, watch out for your daughter!! Her innocence can never be recovered once it is stolen. Don’t trust her around him, make sure his parents are made aware.

Ruchel

Mon, Nov 13 2017, 6:23 am

amother wrote:

I agree with all this, stay far far away - except that he may not be abused, just exposed to the wrong things. Lo alenu. It's very worrying if he's old enough to know, especially in a culture where we are taught about NOT doing this. People will tell you everything is normal, but you got to protect YOUR kids.