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Forum -> Parenting our children -> School age children
Son is not picking up kriah
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amother
Burgundy


 

Post Mon, Nov 20 2017, 8:06 pm
amother wrote:
He actually has speech therapy. I never tried rhyming with him but I doubt he could.


Supposedly dyslexia comes from difficulty hearing the different phonemes of a word. Ex. "cat" has 3 phonemes. To be able to rhyme, you need to be able to hear the sounds that are the same and the ones that are different. --Which is also a prerequisite for reading.

My dyslexic dc was not able to rhyme. My other kids loved making up rhymes on their own as a game, for fun.

It might just be worth an evaluation.

Like Greenbelle and Mommyg8 wrote, one thing I learned is that the school usually has its own agenda, and that's not always the same as my agenda as the mother.

Treat the school's concerns very seriously, but also do your own research and come to your own conclusions.
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jewwoman




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 20 2017, 11:40 pm
Hi op. I only just saw this thread. I actually work with children who have difficulties in kriah. I read with children at least twice a week. If you are concerned I would voice your opinion to the head of kodesh at your sons school. Especially if he is struggling his behaviour will be affected. Bhatslacha.
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OldYoung




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 21 2017, 4:10 am
Before looking into dyslexia / add / learning disabilities, please have his eyesight and hearing tested to be sure that those aren’t impairing his learning.
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creditcards




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 21 2017, 6:20 am
Greenbelle wrote:
Your perspective is painful and foreign to me; forgive me but instead of sounding like a protective mama bear, you sound like you too are exasperated with him, you compare him to his brother and he comes up short and then you wonder why his behavior is deteriorating.

you say 'I don't know what to do with him' you say 'his brother picked it up in 5 minutes' you jump to the ridiculous conclusion that he is either learning disabled or not smart!!! Really???

you sound like you are your son's adversary and then to top it off, you say that other children find him 'annoying'
well duh.

You have bought into the school's appraisal of his value based upon his ability to pick up a foreign language which comes to some more easily than others. From the tone of your post, he has to deal with all this NOT ONLY in school, but also at home!!!
poor boy.
Home is supposed to be a safe haven but with your attitude, its not.

Two of my children who have high intelligence quotients had trouble learning to read.
I remember sitting next to my son on the couch and wrapping my arms around his thin frame and telling him the following. ' you are my beloved son; you are blessed with deep intellect. you are kind, you are sincere, you are deep and warm and affectionate and insightful. you are beloved by me and by abba and the whole family for all of your wonderful qualities and that will never change. Weather you learn to read this month or in another year or 2 or 3 your inherent value will never ever ever be attached to how quickly you learn a skill."

He is feeling your disapproval and frustration, the Rebbi's hostility at not being able to get it easily, he feels ridiculed by his peers, less than his brother... the pain just goes on and on.

Sure you can snap at me for pointing out the truth but who cares what I think??? I am nobody important to you! go get an attitude change, go take care of your child. go love and nurture him and stop sounding like an exasperated TEACHER.


And your perspective is painful and foreign to me. What's wrong with naming a problem with the name that describes it? My daughter is social awkward, autistic, not so smart. That doesn't take away from her cuteness. And she knows we love her. She is in a class with kids like her so she as her place in class. She is the cutest kid in her class and the teachers love her. But when I talk about her to her therapists and discuss what to do to help her, I always speak about her the way she actually is. What exactly do you expect? All mother's of slow kids to be in denial that we have slow kids? Or is it a "political correctness" type of way of talking? Why do you jump at OP and say she is not protecting her child? She is asking for advice here. She is not talking to her child now.
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 21 2017, 6:41 am
Reading -- including kriah -- is a developmental/maturational skill. Some kids are ready at age 2 or 3; others aren't ready until age 6 or even 7. It doesn't have anything to do with intelligence, any more than walking early has to do with intelligence. And his speech issues may make it more difficult. If you cannot pronounce the difference between S and TH, for example, its not so easy to learn it.

Yes, there may be learning differences present. Or he may need to mature. I'd recommend a psych-ed evaluation, so you can have a better idea what's going on.

As to his being "annoying," that's probably his defense mechanism because he's not getting the lessons. We've heard that one before as well.

In the meantime, play some games with him. Can you buy a Hebrew letter puzzle, or play Hebrew letter go fish or matching games. He can make the sounds of the letters he knows, and match the pictures of the ones he doesn't know (with you making the sound for him). There are some downloads available.


Last edited by SixOfWands on Tue, Nov 21 2017, 7:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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amother
White


 

Post Tue, Nov 21 2017, 6:42 am
There is no such thing as just not smart. There is different types of intelligence.
Rabbi Moshe Shaul Klein in boro park on 44th street between 13 and 14 can probably help you zero in on the problem. He is worth a trip from anywhere in the US.
pm me for the number. You will probably save yourself time, money, heartache by seeing him.
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hotzenplotz




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 21 2017, 6:42 am
amother wrote:
There is no such thing as just not smart. There is different types of intelligence.
Rabbi Moshe Shaul Klein in boro park on 44th street between 13 and 14 can probably help you zero in on the problem. He is worth a trip from anywhere in the US.
pm me for the number. You will probably save yourself time, money, heartache by seeing him.
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amother
Firebrick


 

Post Tue, Nov 21 2017, 9:38 am
SixOfWands wrote:
Reading -- including kriah -- is a developmental/maturational skill. Some kids are ready at age 2 or 3; others aren't ready until age 6 or even 7. It doesn't have anything to do with intelligence, any more than walking early has to do with intelligence. And his speech issues may make it more difficult. If you cannot pronounce the difference between S and TH, for example, its not so easy to learn it.

Yes, there may be learning differences present. Or he may need to mature. I'd recommend a psych-ed evaluation, so you can have a better idea what's going on.

As to his being "annoying," that's probably his defense mechanism because he's not getting the lessons. We've heard that one before as well.

In the meantime, play some games with him. Can you buy a Hebrew letter puzzle, or play Hebrew letter go fish or matching games. He can make the sounds of the letters he knows, and match the pictures of the ones he doesn't know (with you making the sound for him). There are some downloads available.


Thank you
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unexpected




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 21 2017, 9:56 am
I am not a teacher or reading professional but I have also heard that children are ready at different ages. I have seen this with my own children. Some picked up reading in a second, some it took until around second grade for it to really click.
FWIW, my children who took a longer time had a harder time focusing across the board. These were my kids who left the supper table and forgot to come back until bedtime. They frequently lost their things, didn't leave a game to go to the bathroom until it was too late etc. By the time they hit 7 or 8 they were generally more focused and the reading just took off
I never got them Kriah help because I couldn't afford it but I did do a lot of extra practice, frequently with chocolate chips or stickers. I felt that the reward wasn't so much to motivate them as much as it was to break it down into manageable tasks. It's hard to read a line, but it's fun to read one word and get a sticker. See how easy that was? Let's do it again!
Also, because I worked with them closely a few times a week I was able to tell my school that the child understood the reading concepts. It was more an issue of accuracy and fluency. This knowledge helped me stand strong when the school recommended remedial help
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amother
Aquamarine


 

Post Tue, Nov 21 2017, 1:24 pm
amother wrote:
Don't know what to do with him... My 5 year old son is in primary and is having a really hard time with Kriah ( aleph bais, their sounds and with the two nekudos that they've learned so far). I don't know what to do with him. My last son picked it up in a second. How do I know if he has a learning disability or is just not smart?
I'm also getting a lot of complaints from the rebbi about other children finding him "annoying" and that he might have behavioral issues. So stressed about this!


Wow 5 is really very young for a Rebbe to make such a 'diagnosis...'

hen my DD was 5, the then Principal of my daughter's former school told me something similar to what your son's Rebbe said. She also told me my daughter is "sneaky" and not nice to the other kids. She and the Morah always had a negative word to tell me about my DD. I suspected one or both of them didn't like something about my daughter; my daughter picked up on that, and it made her uncomfortable, which was the cause of her less-than-stellar behavior at school. After the summer, the Principal quit. A few weeks into the new school year, my daughter became a "great student" and "sweet girl," according to the new Principal and Morah. Because they treated my daughter like a smart and good student from the beginning, that's how she saw herself and what she became.

I realized then that children often don't know how uncomfortable their educator's negative opinions makes them feel, let alone how to express such feelings. When we as parents say "The Principal said you did X or said Y or have trouble doing Z..." it causes children humiliation and low-self esteem. They intuitively act out the part educators assign them. My experience really makes me wonder how many kids with "behavioral issues" are victims of negative assessment by educators, reinforced by parents?

Whenever an educator tells me "your DS/DD did/said/has trouble with X..." I try to work on that issue with the child WITHOUT confronting them on it directly. For example, a Morah told me "Your DD doesn't read aloud in class" Instead of confronting my child on this, I say "Your Morah said you know kriyah. I want to hear you read this page to me nice and loud, because I know you can do it. And tomorrow in class be sure to read really loud!" If that approach doesn't improve things, I tell the child that Morah or Rebbe said X, so let's work more on whatever the X is. But I find that most of the time my children improve with our assistance alone, and they hardly ever need to hear what negative evaluations their Morah or Rebbe made.

On a sidenote, I was dyslexic as a child (still am- it's something you work with but that doesn't go away). I didn't learn to read well until almost 7, and I wrote letters and numbers backwards, in addition to mixing them up until about 9. My parents took the time to do extra writing/reading practice with me. What might have taken some children one hour to learn took me two. Math was horrible for me- I had to work five times as hard as the other kids. Now this was 30 years ago in a simpler world BH, and so I never got an 'evaluation.' That was good, because I never thought I was stupid or slow or had some learning disability, and so my self-esteem wasn't impacted. I just thought I needed to work harder, and so I did. BH I -the slow learner- made it through university and graduate school by 23 with a BA and MA in a field I am really passionate about. So being a "slow learner" or even "dyslexic" is neither a handicap nor impediment to success...
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notshanarishona




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 21 2017, 5:54 pm
I just want to say that many students have trouble in kindergarten and then do fine later on. Some kids are just not developmentally ready for all the knowledge they are being taught at the young age of 5! Especially if you as say he is on the younger side, he might just need some more time.
There is more and more of a push lately for more academics at a younger age but kids used to not learn reading at all until 1st grade, never mind in 2 languages.
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amother
Seashell


 

Post Tue, Nov 21 2017, 7:26 pm
I definitely you should get him tested by someone in the field. My opinion is the earlier the better!
His behavior, as mentioned, is probably because he's stressed out in school as he doesn't 'get' what's going on.
Is it possible to arrange playdates with some kids after school at your house, to try to ease him into the social scene in a more relaxed and fun atmosphere? It's a temporary solution, but I've found it makes a big difference to one of my kids who had a hard time socially in school. She always was a great friend with my neighbors, but school was altogether overwhelming for her - she couldn't make friends like that! Once she got to know some kids on a one to one basis at home, it really helped!
This same daughter also had a hard time in pre1A, She had know the אב since age 2, but couldn't get the 'blending' with nekudos. Interestingly, in her case, teaching her simple words in english like 'cat' and 'set' helped her blend, and eased her into hebrew reading as well.
She's in second grade now, she's very bright conceptually but still on the slower end with reading and writing. She's probably more on a first grade level of reading, but getting better every day - practice, practice, practice! She'll still mix up the order of letters sometimes and long words scare her, but a reading specialist told me it's normal, and she'll get there!
My siblings and I were reading chapter books at age 4 1/2 so it was an experience for me to got through this with my daughter, but we're both doing great! I think it helped me appreciate my daughter as her own unique person!
Sorry for rambling, but your post touched a sensitive chord in me! Good luck!!
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