Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Judaism -> Halachic Questions and Discussions
Is Kidney donation halachally obligatory?
1  2  3  4  Next



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 22 2017, 1:26 pm
https://www.theyeshivaworld.co.....uffer

The rav in the above article states that it is. I personally have a deep phobia of all things surgical, due in part to a missing clotting factor that requires replacement every time that I have surgery. My risk, if I were to be a donor would be presumably greater than the average because a blood transfusion recipient has a 1 in 14,000 chance of death due to a bad transfusion.

Someone that I am close to was an altruistic kidney donor and did not know the recipient and this was handled by Project Renewal. She did not have an easy recovery but then, due to her family obligations, did not spend the required recovery time in Aym Bonim.

I am not sure if the p'sak spoken of in this ruling applies to family members of kidney patients or that this rav is ruling that everyone must donate a kidney. My fear would be that if something happened to injure the remaining kidney, then the donor would truly be in danger.

As the article states, a transplant usually gives the recipient many more years of a productive life. I am not sure what happens, however, when there is some type of destructive process such as diabetes but it appears that even that could mean that it would take awhile to destroy the new kidney. Pregnancy possibly could likewise reduce the life span of the new kidney.

It is a great mitzvah, but should it be an obligation? OTOH, I am not a rav and don't want to be guilty of discounting what a rav says, only to say that I would be too chicken to actually carry out this ruling on my own body and would be very nervous if my children or grandchildren decided to undergo this operation, even though they do not have the missing factor. If this were to become a halachic obligation, I would truly have a problem following this because it is not the same, in my limited opinion, as doing a bris on a baby, even though that has caused death in some babies (may we never know from this).

I would imagine that this p'sak would be limited, in part, by the condition of the giver; are they healthy, aged, pregnant, likely to become pregnant, unable to miss work, etc. Also, at what age or period in life would this become an obligation?

I am sure that there are other opinions out there, as stated in the article but then again, these are older opinions based on older perceptions about the risks to the donor. I also realize that this p'sak could be a game changer for people desperate for a kidney. Again, I don't want to dismiss what a rav is saying, only to say that it might be problematic for many people.

Any thoughts?
Back to top

amother
Ruby


 

Post Wed, Nov 22 2017, 1:36 pm
I can't imagine that's really a psak. First of all, when would this obligation hit? At bar mitzvah? When you're 20? Are you allowed to delay it until your kids are older and you can take the time to recuperate properly? That's actually my thing now- I would like to be a kidney donor one day, but want to wait till I'm done with the little kids parsha so that it won't be as big a deal to take recovery time.

However, your reasoning about the concerns for the donor is flawed. Lots of people are born with one kidney (my mother and grandfather were both born with one. I have two and checked during all my pregnancies and my kids all have two). There's no additional risk of anything with one kidney as opposed to two. The vast majority of diseases that result in renal failure will cause both kidneys to fail at roughly the same time. My grandfather died from renal failure due to diabetes and a second kidney would not have made a difference, it would have failed just the same and he still would have lived the last couple of years of his life on dialysis. My mother is kh perfectly healthy with her one.
Back to top

seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 22 2017, 1:41 pm
I'm no rabbi but AFAIK your own life comes first and you're not required to put yourself at risk to help someone else. Any surgery carries risks.
Back to top

southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 22 2017, 1:44 pm
amother wrote:
I can't imagine that's really a psak. First of all, when would this obligation hit? At bar mitzvah? When you're 20? Are you allowed to delay it until your kids are older and you can take the time to recuperate properly? That's actually my thing now- I would like to be a kidney donor one day, but want to wait till I'm done with the little kids parsha so that it won't be as big a deal to take recovery time.

However, your reasoning about the concerns for the donor is flawed. Lots of people are born with one kidney (my mother and grandfather were both born with one. I have two and checked during all my pregnancies and my kids all have two). There's no additional risk of anything with one kidney as opposed to two. The vast majority of diseases that result in renal failure will cause both kidneys to fail at roughly the same time. My grandfather died from renal failure due to diabetes and a second kidney would not have made a difference, it would have failed just the same and he still would have lived the last couple of years of his life on dialysis. My mother is kh perfectly healthy with her one.


I am referring to injury to the one kidney, not to illness.
Back to top

amother
Tan


 

Post Wed, Nov 22 2017, 1:46 pm
That's funny, I'm in the process of finding a match to donate my kidney to and someone actually told me he's not sure I'm halachically allowed to, I should ask a shaila...

I'm not asking a shaila (I believe it's permissible) but I'd be really surprised if it was halachically obligatory. There is a risk every time you go under anesthesia, how can you force someone to take that risk?
Back to top

amother
Ruby


 

Post Wed, Nov 22 2017, 1:51 pm
southernbubby wrote:
I am referring to injury to the one kidney, not to illness.

Unless someone stabs you through the kidney, an injury that harms your kidneys is also overwhelmingly likely to take down both.
Back to top

amother
Forestgreen


 

Post Wed, Nov 22 2017, 1:57 pm
I would love to be able to donate a kidney.Think it is really special thing to do. But my husband doesn't thing it is a good idea for me and this point of my life. Perhaps when I get a little older.
Back to top

mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 22 2017, 2:01 pm
amother wrote:
I would love to be able to donate a kidney.Think it is really special thing to do. But my husband doesn't thing it is a good idea for me and this point of my life. Perhaps when I get a little older.


Same exact. Would love to do it, but my husband doesn’t agree.

And to op, nobody is obligated to donate a kidney. That’s one of the dumbest things I ever heard.
Back to top

amother
Mistyrose


 

Post Wed, Nov 22 2017, 2:03 pm
My friend's 74 year old father has to have his kidney removed soon due to some sort of growth that is affecting its functioning.
He had his first kidney removed seven years ago, due to cancer.
He will have to be on dialysis for the rest of his life once he no longer has any kidneys.
Had he had only the one kidney seven years ago, he would have been on dialysis already from then....
Back to top

southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 22 2017, 2:04 pm
amother wrote:
Unless someone stabs you through the kidney, an injury that harms your kidneys is also overwhelmingly likely to take down both.


http://www.merckmanuals.com/ho.....uries

This states blunt trauma and my father had cancer of one kidney (fatal) but you are correct about other forms of kidney disease, poisoning, and severe dehydration.
Back to top

Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 22 2017, 2:06 pm
It's mutter, but not a chiyuv according to anyone.
Back to top

southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 22 2017, 2:07 pm
Iymnok wrote:
It's mutter, but not a chiyuv according to anyone.


but according to the rav in the article it is a chiyuv
Back to top

southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 22 2017, 2:10 pm
I would say here, however, that if a family member chas' v'sholem, needed any of my disposable body parts, I would have to get over my fear of surgery and plasma transfusion.
Back to top

southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 22 2017, 2:11 pm
mommy3b2c wrote:
Same exact. Would love to do it, but my husband doesn’t agree.

And to op, nobody is obligated to donate a kidney. That’s one of the dumbest things I ever heard.


It didn't come from me, I was quoting an article.
Back to top

amother
Slateblue


 

Post Wed, Nov 22 2017, 2:14 pm
Iymnok wrote:
It's mutter, but not a chiyuv according to anyone.



Rav Chaim Yoseph Dovid Weiss, the Satmar Dayan in Antwerp and author of the Responsa series Vayaan Dovid writes (Vol. IV p. 196) that there is no danger involved in the operation and that it is a full-fledged halachic obligation. The same ruling was issued in a British based Torah journal entitled Kol HaTorah (#59 p. 175) in an article by Rabbi Eliezer Sternbuch of New York. As far as the issue of whether there is an obligation to perform it as soon as possible, Rabbi Weiss cites the Shulchan Aruch (YD 252:3) that when time is of the essence there is certainly such an obligation.

Regarding the issue of who should do it, Rabbi Weiss quotes the Shulchan Aruch (YD 251) regarding Hilchos Tzedaka that the obligation lies first and foremost among family members. He also cites the Gemorah in Bava Metziah (71a) that the obligation to perform chessed to another is incumbent upon the family members first.
When it is possible to receive the kidney in another manner albeit through expenses and the sick person has the resources to do so, Rav Weiss writes that there is no obligation incumbent upon the family member.
Back to top

amother
Slateblue


 

Post Wed, Nov 22 2017, 2:16 pm
amother wrote:
That's funny, I'm in the process of finding a match to donate my kidney to and someone actually told me he's not sure I'm halachically allowed to, I should ask a shaila...

I'm not asking a shaila (I believe it's permissible) but I'd be really surprised if it was halachically obligatory. There is a risk every time you go under anesthesia, how can you force someone to take that risk?


Rav Chaim Yoseph Dovid Weiss, the Satmar Dayan in Antwerp and author of the Responsa series Vayaan Dovid writes (Vol. IV p. 196) that there is no danger involved in the operation
Back to top

southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 22 2017, 2:17 pm
amother wrote:
Rav Chaim Yoseph Dovid Weiss, the Satmar Dayan in Antwerp and author of the Responsa series Vayaan Dovid writes (Vol. IV p. 196) that there is no danger involved in the operation and that it is a full-fledged halachic obligation. The same ruling was issued in a British based Torah journal entitled Kol HaTorah (#59 p. 175) in an article by Rabbi Eliezer Sternbuch of New York. As far as the issue of whether there is an obligation to perform it as soon as possible, Rabbi Weiss cites the Shulchan Aruch (YD 252:3) that when time is of the essence there is certainly such an obligation.

Regarding the issue of who should do it, Rabbi Weiss quotes the Shulchan Aruch (YD 251) regarding Hilchos Tzedaka that the obligation lies first and foremost among family members. He also cites the Gemorah in Bava Metziah (71a) that the obligation to perform chessed to another is incumbent upon the family members first.
When it is possible to receive the kidney in another manner albeit through expenses and the sick person has the resources to do so, Rav Weiss writes that there is no obligation incumbent upon the family member.


Does this mean buying the kidney?
Back to top

southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 22 2017, 2:19 pm
amother wrote:
Rav Chaim Yoseph Dovid Weiss, the Satmar Dayan in Antwerp and author of the Responsa series Vayaan Dovid writes (Vol. IV p. 196) that there is no danger involved in the operation


Elsewhere in the article it says that there is a very small percentage of donors die from the procedure so obviously some danger exists, albeit minuscule.
Back to top

amother
Slateblue


 

Post Wed, Nov 22 2017, 2:22 pm
southernbubby wrote:
Elsewhere in the article it says that there is a very small percentage of donors die from the procedure so obviously some danger exists, albeit minuscule.


The author of the article disagrees with Rav Weiss. But Rav Weiss make this psak based on his opinion (or his understanding of fact) there is no risk.
Back to top

Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 22 2017, 2:26 pm
southernbubby wrote:
but according to the rav in the article it is a chiyuv

IF there areNO risks. The article continues to say that the halachicly definition of "no risk" is 1/10000, while the current best places have 1/5000.
Therefore it is still too high of a risk to be obligatory.
But these seem to be the numbers of the recipient, not the donor.
The donor must research their own risks. Obviously.
Back to top
Page 1 of 4 1  2  3  4  Next Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Judaism -> Halachic Questions and Discussions

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Monsey clothing donation
by swmm246
2 Wed, Jan 31 2024, 4:27 pm View last post
Kidney transplant starting shortly
by amother
5 Mon, Dec 11 2023, 11:57 am View last post
Clothing Donation
by amother
4 Tue, Aug 29 2023, 2:06 pm View last post
Donation to kever rebbe Shayale from kerestir
by amother
1 Mon, Apr 24 2023, 1:34 pm View last post
Hair Donation 1 Tue, Mar 28 2023, 1:22 pm View last post