Rabbi Leiter defends Alabama Senate candidate Judge Moore

southernbubby

Sun, Nov 19 2017, 6:18 pm

Fox wrote:

Well, like I said, I'd be more sympathetic to that argument if the GOP would focus on utilizing the Senators they already have. Last time I looked, Mitch McConnell had an approval rating in Kentucky of 18 percent, and even his wife wouldn't unequivocally state her support for him. Apparently being Secretary of Transportation isn't the kind of gig you want to jeopardize.

I'm assuming the "flyover" comment is meant ironically, right?

Yes, unless I am totally uninformed, are people looking at Alabama as a place to move to? I never see ads that state, "retire to sunny, tropical Alabama where we protect Confederate statues."

Fox

Sun, Nov 19 2017, 6:57 pm

southernbubby wrote:

Yes, unless I am totally uninformed, are people looking at Alabama as a place to move to? I never see ads that state, "retire to sunny, tropical Alabama where we protect Confederate statues."

You must be a young bubby, then.

Anything aimed at the 55+ crowd has exhortations to consider Alabama for retirement. In addition to warm weather, they have only a 5 percent income tax (and none for people 65+); some of the lowest property taxes in the country; and no state taxes on Social Security or pensions.

Actually, most of us could do worse -- and do -- than Alabama. The job outlook isn't great unless you have specific skills, but the state isn't losing jobs, which is more than I can say for my state. Depending on where you're located, it's a 2-hour or so drive to Atlanta.

I still can't tell if you're kidding or not, but, yes, people are definitely moving to the South in general and have been for quite a while. Alabama's population has increased significantly over the past decade, and the weather and low taxes make them an attractive possibility for businesses looking to relocate.

southernbubby

Sun, Nov 19 2017, 7:13 pm

Fox wrote:

I'm 62 but I see lots of lists like this and can't find any mention of Alabama:

Forbes’ Best Places to Retire 2017

Athens, Ga.
Bella Vista, Ark.
Bethlehem, Pa.
Boise, Idaho
Brevard, N.C.
Clemson, S.C.
Colorado Springs, Colo.
Fargo, N.D.
Grand Prairie, Texas
Green Valley, Ariz.
Harrisonburg, Va.
Iowa City, Iowa
Jefferson City, Mo.
Lawrence, Kan.
Lewiston, Maine
Lincoln, Neb.
Maryville, Tenn.
Ocean Pines, Md.
Peoria, Ariz.
Port Charlotte, Fla.
San Marcos, Texas
Savannah, Ga.
Summerville, S.C.
The Villages, Fla.
Wenatchee, Wash.
Find more activities, recipes and games in the AARP Lifestyle Newsletter

southernbubby

Sun, Nov 19 2017, 7:37 pm

Fox wrote:

I think they advertise to a slightly less affluent crowd than people reading Forbes. But you notice that the majority of these places are in the South and Southwest.

so I looked up the 10 cheapest places to retire and Alabama is well represented:

Top 10 cheapest places to retire in U.S.

10. Montgomery, Ala.

Annual expenditures: $36,971

Annually spent on ...

Housing: $7,149

Groceries: $3,500

Transportation: $6,746

Utilities: $3,796

Health: $5,335

9. Akron, Ohio

Annual expenditures: $36,147

Annually spent on ...

Housing: $5,401

Groceries: $3,767

Transportation: $7,291

Utilities: $3,442

Health: $5,514

8. Cleveland

Annual expenditures: $36,056

Annually spent on ...

Housing: $4,448

Groceries: $3,821

Transportation: $6,746

Utilities: $3,513

Health: $6,474

7. Augusta, Ga.

Annual expenditures: $35,781

Annually spent on ...

Housing: $6,672

Groceries: $3,385

Transportation: $6,337

Utilities: $3,477

Health: $5,574

6. Brownsville, Texas

Annual expenditures: $35,461

Annually spent on ...

Housing: $6,513

Groceries: $3,178

Transportation: $6,746

Utilities: $3,477

Health: $5,694

5. Toledo, Ohio

Annual expenditures: $35,095

Annually spent on ...

Housing: $4,925

Groceries: $3,375

Transportation: $6,814

Utilities: $3,513

Health: $6,174

4. Memphis

Annual expenditures: $33,859

Annually spent on ...

Housing: $6,354

Groceries: $3,221

Transportation: $6,133

Utilities: $3,016

Health: $5,694

3. Jackson, Miss.

Annual expenditures: $33,676

Annually spent on ...

Housing: $4,925

Groceries: $3,135

Transportation: $6,541

Utilities: $3,796

Health: $5,514

2. Detroit

Annual expenditures: $33,356

Annually spent on ...

Housing: $3,177

Groceries: $3,403

Transportation: $6,950

Utilities: $3,654

Health: $5,994

1. Birmingham, Ala.

Annual expenditures: $33,219

Annually spent on ...

Housing: $5,242

Groceries: $3,285

Transportation: $5,860

Utilities: $3,619

Health: $4,915

imasoftov

Thu, Nov 23 2017, 5:40 am

I need to post this song. It has some bad words so if that bothers you more than the subject of the song, I'm posting a copy of the lyrics without them. YouTube decided to auto-play it while I was writing about the yetzer hara in another thread.

Ronnie and Neil - Drive-By Truckers (that's the name of the band, they're based in Athens, Georgia, but two of the members are from Alabama)

Church blew up in Birmingham
Four little black girls killed for no ******* good reason ¹
All this hate and violence can't come to no good end
A stain on the good name.
A whole lot of good people dragged threw the blood and glass
Blood stains on their good names and all of us take the blame

Meanwhile in North Alabama, Wilson Pickett comes to town
To record that sweet soul music, to get that Muscle Shoals sound ²

Meanwhile in North Alabama, Aretha Franklin comes to town
To record that sweet soul music, to get that Muscle Shoals sound

And out in California, a rock star from Canada writes a couple of great songs about the
Bad **** that went down
"Southern Man" and "Alabama" certainly told some truth
But there were a lot of good folks down here and Neil Young wasn't around

Meanwhile in North Alabama, Lynyrd Skynyrd came to town
To record with Jimmy Johnson at Muscle Shoals Sound
And they met some real good people, not racist pieces of ****
And they wrote a song about it and that song became a hit

Ronnie and Neil Ronnie and Neil
Rock stars today ain't half as real
Speaking there minds on how they feel
Let them guitars blast for Ronnie and Neil

Now Ronnie and Neil became good friends their feud was just in song
Skynyrd was a bunch of Neil Young fans and Neil he loved that song ³
So He wrote "Powderfinger" for Skynyrd to record ⁴
But Ronnie ended up singing "Sweet Home Alabama" to the lord

And Neil helped carry Ronnie in his casket to the ground
And to my way of thinking, us southern men need both of them around ⁵

Ronnie and Neil Ronnie and Neil
Rock stars today ain't half as real
Speaking their minds on how they feel
Let them guitars blast for Ronnie and Neil

1. Are there any good reasons for killing children?
2. the line in Sweet Home Alabama, "Now Muscle Shoals has got the Swampers / And they've been known to pick a song or two" is about the Muscle Shoals Rhythm Section, studio musicians who many famous acts have recorded with, including those mentioned in this song.
3. Neil Young is said to have performed the song live but all I've found is a version of "Alabama", his original song with a few notes and lyrics from "Sweet Home Alabama" thrown in.
4. That actually happened. You could Google it. Also, Powderfinger is a song about senseless violence.
5. In Pesachim 116a there is a machloket about how to understand the Mishna's statement that "we start with shame and end with praise" at the Seder refers to "at the start, our ancestors worshipped idols", or "we were slaves to Pharaoh in Egypt", Rabbenu Chananel says "in these times, we say both"

southernbubby

Thu, Nov 23 2017, 8:15 am

Doug Jones was in the lead the other day but since then Trump endorsed Moore and I haven't seen any new polls. Dennis Prager feels that allegations are not enough to throw the election to the Democrats. It appears that every other day, some powerful man is caught by the #Me Too campaign so I am not sure who will be left standing when the dust settles.

Personally, since disconnecting from FB and because the GOP is the majority at the moment, I have seen less of the type of anti-religious rhetoric that I had seen in the past. Apparently the economy is healthy too. What isn't healthy is health insurance and tax reform and I doubt that there will ever be a wall at the Mexico border, not that it would really do much to keep heroin out of the country.

Jeanette

Tue, Nov 28 2017, 11:04 pm

southernbubby wrote:

He wasn't proven to molest anyone yet, it is only a group of allegations. It is always possible that the opposition in an election can get people to say that they were molested or se3ually harassed. Abortion when the fetus is viable is not as widely accepted as abortion early in the pregnancy.

Please read this letter by Leigh Corfman. She made the decision to go public about her treatment by Roy Moore and now is being subject to a malicious smear campaign by Roy Moore and his ilk. Still there are still voices within the frum community that either support him outright or believe that the worst republican is still better than the best democrat.

http://www.al.com/news/index.s......html

Quote:

The initial barrage of attacks against me voiced by your campaign spokespersons and others seemed petty so I did not respond.

But when you personally denounced me last night and called me slanderous names, I decided that I am done being silent. What you did to me when I was 14-years old should be revolting to every person of good morals. But now you are attacking my honesty and integrity. Where does your immorality end?

southernbubby

Wed, Nov 29 2017, 8:39 am

Jeanette wrote:

Here is why Moore has a chance, even though it appears as though he can't really defend himself against the accusations.

http://thehill.com/homenews/ne.....abama

Basically, his evil past, if true and looks likely to be true, is not as important to the voters as what they personally feel that they will have to live with if a Democrat wins. It is kind of like if someone offers you a professional, and this person in his personal life is a louse, but he will do a better job for you than anyone else, even than a virtuous person, then do you pick the louse or the virtuous person.

Personally, I don't get too involved in the abortion issue. It is a sad reality that we need to understand. In MI, where I live, blacks are 14% of the population but have 50% of the abortions done here. Many of the abortions are performed on drug addicts. Often there are no takers for the babies who are born and they languish in foster care and are passed from home to home. Since I am not personally prepared to take them in, I don't stand in the way of mothers who abort but at the same time, I am not pro-choice or believe that a woman (or man) has the right to do whatever they want to her or his own body.

cbsp

Wed, Nov 29 2017, 9:33 am

Jeanette wrote:

(the quoted article messed up imamother's ability to quote your post, not sure why)

Yup. That's the lesson we were taught by Clinton supporters. What, it only works one way???

cbsp

Wed, Nov 29 2017, 10:24 am

Jeanette wrote:

For the record I did not vote for Bill Clinton. I did not vote for him and supported his impeachment.

But since when does the frum community take its cues from the left? If the left did wrong by supporting Bill Clinton why would you follow their lead?

And Hillary? If you voted for her then please research what she did to Mr. Clinton's accusers.

And to address your second point...

Because then you end up in the same place. Or rather, both are morally reprehensible so the choice is either don't participate or pick the lesser of the evils.

Jeanette

Wed, Nov 29 2017, 10:53 am

cbsp wrote:

I don't hold Hillary responsible for her husband's sins. Yes, her record towards her husband's accusers is troubling. Still, the choice was between someone who aided and abetted a molester vs a molester in person. You can't claim Hillary is disqualified for supporting Bill but what Trump personally did to women does not disqualify him.

Point two is that whatever you want to say about Hillary, Doug Jones has never been accused of molesting anyone. His worst crime is supporting abortion rights. As terrible as that position might be in your worldview, I'm not sure which religion says that molesting children is okay as long as you're opposed to abortion. Still the frum community struggles to say unequivocally that Roy Moore has no place in the Senate.

Yeah I know there aren't many Jews in Alabama. I wonder why? Is it possible that rather than being a citadel for religious freedom, it's actually not a very hospitable place for Jews?

Last edited by Jeanette on Wed, Nov 29 2017, 10:58 am; edited 1 time in total

cbsp

Wed, Nov 29 2017, 11:16 am

Jeanette wrote:

Again, you are trying to pivot to Hillary because you cannot defend anything that Donald Trump did.

Huh? I thought this was about Moore? Who's pivoting?

You asked why people aren't giving credence to years' old serious accusations of a sėxual nature, I explained why. You made the diyuk that what Mr. Clinton did was reprehensible but what does that have to do with Hillary. I pointed out that she did the same thing (actually, worse) Moore's accuser is complaining about - from the article that you quoted! - but that was only troubling to you. I don't know, standing silently by your man is one thing, actively going against the victims to me would be abetting, not just enabling.

Which brought me to my point. Since both sides are morally reprehensible (to me), I'll look at the political issues and decide.

Which, in the case of Moore, I thankfully do not have to decide, since I don't live there. But you seemed puzzled why people could still support him, that would be why.

Jeanette

Wed, Nov 29 2017, 11:24 am

cbsp wrote:

People cannot support Roy Moore because of what HE did. People cannot support what Donald Trump did because of what HE did. People on the right and left are losing jobs and reputations based on what they did to women. All except the President of the US, and, most likely, a future senator.

If your justification is that you're just doing whatever Hillary did, does that mean you believe what she did was right? Should we follow her lead in all areas or just in this particular area? Hillary also says all children should have healthcare. Will the right consider adopting that, as long as we are learning from the Clintons how to act?

cbsp

Wed, Nov 29 2017, 11:36 am

Jeanette wrote:

So do you think what Hillary did would be considered abetting? I think she's wrong and morally reprehensible. Do you?

I'm not up on the news. Is Franken still a senator?

PinkFridge

Wed, Nov 29 2017, 12:00 pm

Jeanette wrote:

Yeah I know there aren't many Jews in Alabama. I wonder why? Is it possible that rather than being a citadel for religious freedom, it's actually not a very hospitable place for Jews?

Like many cities and small towns across the country, e.g. Galveston, there was a community in Birmingham once upon a time. If there's something still there to take root hey, maybe that'll be the next Jacksonville or bigger.

This is a mess. I think that many people who held their noses and voted for Trump learned a valuable lesson. Unless, or maybe even if, the opponent is Atilla the Hun, a rasha and mushchas (or female equivalent) (not that I'm saying Hillary is), we can't have cheshbonos. We can't say, well, the greater good is keeping x out so we'll vote y in. We can leave those cheshbonos to the RBShO and just write someone else in. I think that's what I'd do if I were in Alabama.