Baby turns on tummy at night and cries - wwyd?

SixOfWands

Fri, Nov 24 2017, 11:48 am

Zehava wrote:

https://iahp.org/reassessment-sids-back-sleep-campaign-12232014/

The conclusion there isn’t that there is reason to question, and gee, maybe your baby won’t be one of the 2000 to die of SIDS each year.

It doesn’t provide any evidence that back sleeping has not reduced the incidence of SIDS.

Zehava

Fri, Nov 24 2017, 11:51 am

SixOfWands wrote:

The burden of proof is on the back to sleep campaign. And so far I am unimpressed with their logic and with the studies done. So I will continue to use my god given common sense.

SixOfWands

Fri, Nov 24 2017, 11:55 am

Zehava wrote:

Correlation is not causation. No one has been able to prove that stomach sleeping causes sids.
Without a helmet ones skull will crack and without a seatbelt one will be ejected from the vehicle. Stomach sleeping is nowhere near that certain.
The substantial and measurable decrease boils down to mere faulty statistics that fail to take many other factors into account.
For example the guidelines in what exactly is classified as sids as opposed to other causes of death changed over the same period of time and varies state by state and even coroner by coroner.
At the same time other risk factors went down such as smoking and bed sharing.
The decline in sids deaths actually started before the back to sleep campaign but no one bothered to look that up.
The whole 50% decrease is less than one percent of infants to begin with so doesn’t constitute that many babies.
More than 99% of babies are fine no matter how they sleep.

Cosleeping rated have INCREASED.

Quote:

Researchers have discovered that the number of infants sharing a bed with adults has more than doubled between 1993 and 2010, especially among black and Hispanic families.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/I.....ties/

And indeed, most babies are okay if they sleep on their stomachs. And most are ok without car seats. And even if you don’t babyproof, most kids will be fine. The vast majority of safety precautions involve avoidance of relatively small risks. But we still do them.

SixOfWands

Fri, Nov 24 2017, 11:57 am

Zehava wrote:

The burden of proof is on the back to sleep campaign. And so far I am unimpressed with their logic and with the studies done. So I will continue to use my god given common sense.

Why is the burden of proving that the vast decrease in child deaths isn’t caused by back sleeping on those who advocate it.

Zehava

Fri, Nov 24 2017, 11:59 am

SixOfWands wrote:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/infant-bed-sharing-rates-increasing-especially-among-minorities/

And indeed, most babies are okay if they sleep on their stomachs. And most are ok without car seats. And even if you don’t babyproof, most kids will be fine. The vast majority of safety precautions involve avoidance of relatively small risks. But we still do them.

The vast majority of safety precautions make logical sense. Like car seats that are backed up by crash tests and the laws of velocity and inertia. Not so with stomach sleeping.

Zehava

Fri, Nov 24 2017, 12:01 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Why is the burden of proving that the vast decrease in child deaths isn’t caused by back sleeping on those who advocate it.

Because if you’re going to tell a whole nation that they absolutely must put their babies in an unnatural sleeping position or they will be at risk of dying then you better have darn good proof to back that up.

amother

Royalblue

Fri, Nov 24 2017, 1:01 pm

Co-sleeping is actually helpful in preventing SIDS; the trend against co-sleeping is to prevent suffocation. Please don't confuse the two.

Breastfeeding is also shown to reduce risk of SIDS. As does not vaccinating. And avoiding chemicals in the mattress and bedding.

To me Back to Sleep is a program designed for those who put the kid to sleep alone in a crib and possibly in their own room. For parents who mostly bottle-feed. If I take care of my kid in every way, I am unconcerned about tummy sleeping.

My kids have all turned over by laaaaaaaatest 4 months and been crawling by 6 months. I credit that to their developing their neck and upper back muscles from tummy sleeping, unlike my neices and nephews who barely get tummy time because the kid is so unused to this natural position that even during daytime tummy time the kid cries and gives up. This results in babies who can't help themselves in various situations and who need a helmet to put their head back into a normal shape. Rolling Eyes

Zehava

Fri, Nov 24 2017, 1:05 pm

There have been various problems that have arisen since the back to sleep campaign.
Besides the flat head problem which is quite obvious, researchers have attributed a rise in developmentmental delays to this campaign so much so that doctors had to move up the expected ages for milestones.
Things like adhd and autism have also been on the rise but that is merely correlation and can’t be so directly linked.

amother

Teal

Sat, Nov 25 2017, 7:01 pm

New research in understanding why babies are put to sleep on their backs.

Quote:

Breakthrough in Understanding of SIDS
Subset of victims found to have brainstem abnormalities

While scientists have known for years that sleeping on their stomachs makes babies more vulnerable to SIDS, now they know why.
"One of the reasons why SIDS is so devastating for families is that death often occurs with no warning and no obvious signs of illness," says researcher Dr. Fiona Bright of the University of Adelaide. "While the exact cause of death in SIDS has not been identified, multiple studies have pointed to a subset of SIDS babies that are not entirely 'normal' before death. These infants all seem to have some form of underlying vulnerability, exposing them to increased risk. Our studies have now discovered a signifiers abnormality within key regions of the brainstem in SIDS babies, specifically in those parts that control breathing and movements of the head and neck. This abnormality is directly linked to SIDS cases."
The underlying vulnerability in brain chemistry, which is connected to the body's response to oxygen deprivation and more common in premature babies and in boys, places that child "at greater risk of death because its body simply can't respond in the normal way. The baby can't lift its head its breathing and heartbeat will be compromised."

Zehava

Sat, Nov 25 2017, 7:07 pm

Nowhere here does it say why babies need to sleep on their backs. If anything it proves the opposite, that sids babies have a predisposition for it. Babies have died in all kinds of sleeping positions including on their backs. There aren’t even studies that conclusively prove that more stomach sleeping babies died of sids.

amother

Teal

Sat, Nov 25 2017, 7:10 pm

Zehava wrote:

I'll post directly from the research university's website. Maybe it will be more clear.

https://www.adelaide.edu.au/ne......html

amother

Apricot

Sat, Nov 25 2017, 11:08 pm

After my first child was born, I could not get her to sleep for more than 40 minutes at a shot on her back. She would also scream when I just placed her on her back and never feel asleep naturally like that. Only after nursing her and she was too young to sleep train. She only slept in the car. One day, when she was two weeks old, I desperately out Thur in the bassinet on her stomach and she slept. I stayed up for the two hours while she napped and I watched her because I was scared of SIDS. So the next few nights my husband and I took turns watching her as she slept, because, believe it or not, it was better than the alternative. I found out that pacifiers reduce the risk of SIDS too, and felt comfortable letting her sleep on her stomach. She was sleeping through the night at 6 weeks. I was feeling really guilty and was keeping it a secret until it occurred to me that we don't look badly at parents who's babies don't use a pacifier even though it reduces the risk of SIDS. This is because there is already a very low risk of SIDS (.05%), there are benefits to not using a pacifier, and some babies refuse to use them. I then realized all those reasons applied to my situation. There are major benefits to sleeping on The front, no flat head and developmentally. And my baby refused to sleep on her back. With each subsequent child, I tried back to sleep for at least a week before giving up. I actually thought I would be successful with my youngest because he was not as impossible the first few days, but then he let me know.

Anon because I've told this to people in real life.