Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Interesting Discussions
Are there an equal percentage of "Frum" Zexual Perverts?
  Previous  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9



Post new topic    View latest: 24h 48h 72h

youngishbear




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 26 2017, 12:04 pm
To summarize:

1. Men cheat.
2. Women have babies out of wedlock.
3. Rules prevent immoral behavior.

A. Religious
B. Secular

I. Most
II. Many
III. Some
IV. Few
V. No

Add adjectives as per personal beliefs.
Back to top

Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 26 2017, 12:07 pm
amother wrote:
Yes, despite your skeptism, I know a lot of s#x addicts. They are all male. For whatever reason, I kind of have an "open house" for s#x addicts. I also have been on the spouses of SAs forum here for years, as well as guard your eyes, so I do have a lot of knowledge relating to s#x addiction.

As for your second paragraph... I never claimed to have any data so I'm not sure why you're questioning me. All I said (which I maintain) is that your statement that "frum men diagnosed as SA would be considered" normal" in the secular world" is false and demonstrates that you are probably not as knowledgeable about the criteria for diagnosis as you are claiming.


So, someone who has an "open house" for s*x addicts... so you're assuming that all men are s*x addicts based on this data?

The criteria for diagnosis is that it impacts your life, as I explained earlier. Yes, someone in the secular world might not go for help, or might not be forced to go for help, or whatever. They would have no incentive to get married, and they probably don't. So it's quite obvious that our system, where everyone gets married, puts more people in the line of being diagnosed.

In any case, this conversation has gone way off topic, for me. My point was that s*x addiction is not in the same category as cheating or having affairs. Whatever the criteria for being diagnosed, doesn't really matter, what matters is the prevalence of [filth]. There is no stigma for watching [filth] in the non-Jewish world, so there it would be a non-issue, and therefore, obviously way more prevalent. It's not a non-issue in our world, whether the person has a diagnosis or not. So there's obviously less [filth] in our world, with probably a large part of the reason being because of societal and family pressure.

I just wanted to add that I have not only lived in Lakewood, I have lived in other neighborhoods as well. In the frum Jewish world, almost nothing is a secret, so that yes, I would have heard, and I did hear, if my neighbor was having an affair and with who. Unfortunately, the number was way more than zero, but it was nowhere near the 30 - 40% mark that a former poster is claiming. And in my experience it was equally men and women, unfortunately, just like in the non-Jewish world. But obviously, like we keep saying, there are no statistics. I just wanted to bring up the issue that women cheat, too; this is not just a man's problem, even in our world.
Back to top

33055




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 26 2017, 12:09 pm
amother wrote:
I was responding directly to you. You claim that all nonreligious men, and particularly nonreligious men in blue collar jobs, talk about Zex all day. I said that’s not my experience. If there’s any bizarre turn, it’s your contention.


This may be industry specific. Where there is power and money, there is zexual pressure. I worked on Wall Street - not as a secretary. My boss, who was one of the top bosses in retail at a top brokerage firm, told me in front of everyone that there are only women are sluts or secretaries. He asked me which on I was as he had his hand high on a secretary's thigh. I told him I was one of the boys. My boss's boss told me that he had a corporate apartment I could live at. He used to lean over my desk mooning for long periods of time. They used to do coke in the wireroom. The atmosphere was unimaginable to someone not in that industry.

Anita Hill came out at that time along with her doubters. It is hard to believe in this me too atmosphere, but this brave woman's experience's were also not believed.

Money, power, and zex all seem to go together in certain industries.

The best way I know to protect my kids is to never let them be near these industries.
Back to top

Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 26 2017, 12:14 pm
DrMom wrote:
I am inclined to agree with Marina on this one.

I have also worked in a variety of places in both the US (where the majority of my coworkers were non-Jewish) and Israel (where the majority of my coworkers are Jewish but not datim).

None of my male coworkers in either setting spoke about sx all day (!!). Such behavior would land him a quick trip to HR.

My jobs were all in engineering/science/biotech fields.

Did you (Mommy8) actually hold job where this was routine and accepted behavior among your male coworkers? In what industry/profession, if I may ask? I can understand how this may be true if you worked in a strip club or x-rated film production unit or a sx toy design studio, but it is not accepted behavior in most sectors of the workforce.


Blue collar workers. As you say, you did not work in that field. Also, to be clear, they did not talk to me that way, but amongst themselves... yes, it was a very prevalent topic of conversation.

Also... I will tell you which other industries I worked in if you pm me. I don't want to out myself, but yes, there are industries other than strip clubs which have a slightly looser atmosphere than the ones you are describing.

Again, to be clear, I did not mean that they this was the ONLY topic they spoke about. But it certainly was part of the every day conversation.
Back to top

Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 26 2017, 12:16 pm
Squishy wrote:
This may be industry specific. Where there is power and money, there is zexual pressure. I worked on Wall Street - not as a secretary. My boss, who was one of the top bosses in retail at a top brokerage firm, told me in front of everyone that there are only women are sluts or secretaries. He asked me which on I was as he had his hand high on a secretary's thigh. I told him I was one of the boys. My boss's boss told me that he had a corporate apartment I could live at. He used to lean over my desk mooning for long periods of time. They used to do coke in the wireroom. The atmosphere was unimaginable to someone not in that industry.

Anita Hill came out at that time along with her doubters. It is hard to believe in this me too atmosphere, but this brave woman's experience's were also not believed.

Money, power, and zex all seem to go together in certain industries.

The best way I know to protect my kids is to never let them be near these industries.


Thank you, Squishy, that was my experience as well (in a different, but similar industry).

New York is a lovely place.

For those of you who say that you have never encountered this, that proves nothing. Maybe the men you were in contact with were not as open about things in front of a woman, but my dh has encountered way more of this than I have, obviously because he is a man, fellow men are more open with him, etc.

And I am not saying that everyone is like this, all the time. I switched jobs more than once to get away from this atmosphere, so I do know that there are better places, as well. I'm just saying this was my experience, and I have spoken to others who have had this experience, as well.

Again, to be clear, the s*x talk seemed to have come only from men, for whatever reason. If you work mostly with women, that's probably why you have never encountered it.


Last edited by Mommyg8 on Sun, Nov 26 2017, 12:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top

marina




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 26 2017, 12:23 pm
I think we can all agree that some men are inappropriate, especially in earlier decades. The entire #metoo movement highlights this problem.

what you wrote though was that all nonjewish men talk about 5ex all day and are obsessed with it. which is just inaccurate.
Back to top

33055




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 26 2017, 12:30 pm
marina wrote:
I think we can all agree that some men are inappropriate, especially in earlier decades. The entire #metoo movement highlights this problem.

what you wrote though was that all nonjewish men talk about 5ex all day and are obsessed with it. which is just inaccurate.


Some of us know that it is less in the frum world. Biology is biology, and frum teenagers have just as many hormones but without the outlet.

I believe men using money and power to get zex from ladies happens more when they are older and have accumulated said money and power. Of course some have access at a younger age to wealth and power.
Back to top

Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 26 2017, 12:30 pm
amother wrote:
I was responding directly to you. You claim that all nonreligious men, and particularly nonreligious men in blue collar jobs, talk about Zex all day. I said that’s not my experience. If there’s any bizarre turn, it’s your contention.


I will respond to both you and marina - I don't remember saying ALL. If I did, I certainly take it back. It was a large percentage, I was not doing a scientific survey at the time. I do remember this very vividly, having come from a sheltered, Bais Yaakov type environment, this was... it was a shock. It could be that other industries are "cleaner", I only know what happened to me, my friends, and my dh. I want to add that my dh, also coming from a certain environment, was extremely shocked at what he heard and saw when he first started working. Obviously, everyone's experience will be different, but I only know mine.
Back to top

amother
Babyblue


 

Post Sun, Nov 26 2017, 12:34 pm
Mommyg8 wrote:
So, someone who has an "open house" for s*x addicts... so you're assuming that all men are s*x addicts based on this data?

The criteria for diagnosis is that it impacts your life, as I explained earlier. Yes, someone in the secular world might not go for help, or might not be forced to go for help, or whatever. They would have no incentive to get married, and they probably don't. So it's quite obvious that our system, where everyone gets married, puts more people in the line of being diagnosed.

In any case, this conversation has gone way off topic, for me. My point was that s*x addiction is not in the same category as cheating or having affairs. Whatever the criteria for being diagnosed, doesn't really matter, what matters is the prevalence of [filth]. There is no stigma for watching [filth] in the non-Jewish world, so there it would be a non-issue, and therefore, obviously way more prevalent. It's not a non-issue in our world, whether the person has a diagnosis or not. So there's obviously less [filth] in our world, with probably a large part of the reason being because of societal and family pressure.

I just wanted to add that I have not only lived in Lakewood, I have lived in other neighborhoods as well. In the frum Jewish world, almost nothing is a secret, so that yes, I would have heard, and I did hear, if my neighbor was having an affair and with who. Unfortunately, the number was way more than zero, but it was nowhere near the 30 - 40% mark that a former poster is claiming. And in my experience it was equally men and women, unfortunately, just like in the non-Jewish world. But obviously, like we keep saying, there are no statistics. I just wanted to bring up the issue that women cheat, too; this is not just a man's problem, even in our world.


I'm so confused. Why would you conclude that I think all men are s#x addicts?!!? And... based on what data? I never mentioned any data.

I'm going to repeat (for the third time) what I said, which is that based on my very considerable experience with and knowledge of s#x addiction, your statement "frum men diagnosed as SAs would be considered " normal" in the secular world" is false.

Impact on one's life is one of, but not the SOLE criteria (as you keep suggesting it is) in getting an addiction diagnosis.

Finally, [filth] is definitely less accepted in the frum world but it is not true that it's no big deal for everyone outside the frum world (although yes, that is the case for some).
Back to top

Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 26 2017, 12:43 pm
amother wrote:
I'm so confused. Why would you conclude that I think all men are s#x addicts?!!? And... based on what data? I never mentioned any data.

I'm going to repeat (for the third time) what I said, which is that based on my very considerable experience with and knowledge of s#x addiction, your statement "frum men diagnosed as SAs would be considered " normal" in the secular world" is false.

Impact on one's life is one of, but not the SOLE criteria (as you keep suggesting it is) in getting an addiction diagnosis.

Finally, [filth] is definitely less accepted in the frum world but it is not true that it's no big deal for everyone outside the frum world (although yes, that is the case for some).


I thought that the implication was that there is the same amount of s*xual perversions in the frum world, but if that is not what you meant, then I take it back.

Perhaps we are defining addiction differently. I think of someone like Bill Clinton as an addict, since as far as I know, his behavior meets the criteria, the way I understand addiction. JFK was an addict, again, the way that I understand addiction. These people are not showing up to SA meetings. So perhaps our criteria is different, and to be actually diagnosed, there has to be a much higher level of dysfunction. I still maintain that many non-Jewish men are addicts, but they do not see themselves that way, and they are certainly not going for treatment. We obviously disagree. Ok.
Back to top

Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 26 2017, 2:52 pm
In short, the s-xual revolution has not been an unqualified success.

Taboos are often painful and unfair to individuals, but they serve a function in society. Once taboos start falling, it's hard to control the process.

True s-xual taboos have been reduced in Western society to basically three: 1) mutual consent; 2) no kids; and 3) no animals.

Virtually every other s-xual behavior is excused by someone, somewhere, on the basis of desire ("if it feels good, do it) or authenticity ("this is what I need to be fulfilled). No matter how insulated you are from the general culture, you are still influenced by your surroundings. It's not a surprise, therefore, that there are plenty of people in the frum world who succumb to its temptations.

The s-xual revolution has been especially rough on women. Easily available contraception and s-xual equality were supposed to usher in an era in which women were free to pursue pleasure in the same ways as men. However, it turned out that what women wanted and what men understood were two very different things. Women, in general, continued to imagine s-x within the confines of some sort of relationship. Men often tended to hear "all-you-can-eat smorgasbord."

Are the problems as widespread in the frum community as in the secular world? Maybe. Maybe not. Anyway, even if we had reliable data, would we really feel better knowing that only 15 percent of people cheat versus 30 percent? Is there some lower limit that would meet our approval?

I recently heard an interview with a conservative/libertarian public figure whose name alone would probably throw some of you into apoplectic shock. He was asked, "What can be done to save Western Civilization?" The so-called godfather of hipsterdom -- a religious, married, father of three, answered, "Put a ring on it and be faithful to your spouse."

Hard to argue. It certainly wouldn't prevent every instance of bad s-xual behavior, but it's a much better ideal than "if it feels good, do it."
Back to top
Page 9 of 9   Previous  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 Recent Topics




Post new topic       Forum -> Interesting Discussions

Related Topics Replies Last Post
I love frum fashion for kids
by amother
138 Today at 2:57 pm View last post
"Affordable" clothing for an adult
by amother
0 Today at 12:26 pm View last post
Where to get 44"/48" mattresses/platform beds 1 Yesterday at 10:33 am View last post
I’m a size 0 and nothing fits me in the frum stores
by amother
29 Yesterday at 9:14 am View last post
Does anybody use "the pink stuff"?
by tweety1
11 Mon, Mar 25 2024, 2:47 pm View last post