The shidduch process

amother

Sapphire

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 12:43 am

This week I thought about the following 2 thoughts.

From our Emuhas we can learn four different ways of doing a shidduch
1) Sura- Was a relative to Avruhum
2) Rivkah- was through a shadchan that thought she was compatible to Yitzchok
3)Ruchel- Yakov fell in love with her
4)Leah- Yakov was fooled by his shver in marrying her.
If a shidduch is meant to happen its gonna happen no matter what.

My second thought was the first 3 were waiting a long time until they had kids. Only Leah became pregnant right away. The pain of feeling fooled into, unwanted, uncared, can be so great, sometimes as painful as an akurah.

Your thought??

amother

Sapphire

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 9:06 am

amother wrote:

The question then, is why we don't let our young people meet on their own when there's proof that this can be the basis of a happy marriage.

The two arranged marriages, Rivka and Yitzchak and Yaakov and Leah were certainly less happy than the others. At least that's what the Torah shows us.

Interesting.

I also thought why do we have to fool someone into doing a shidduch. Look how painful it can be if bashert it's gonna happen anyways why the need to fool?
Yakov would've probably marry Leah later anyways when Rochel didn't have kids?

southernbubby

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 9:33 am

amother wrote:

Outside of the frum world, many non-Orthodox Jewish communities are not pro-active in helping people find mates and as a result, many never marry or they marry non-Jews. Singles and intermarrieds often don't join temples and synagogues so the memberships of those houses of worship, dwindle. Then, as those singles age, there is no one to care for them.

So the shidduch process, as imperfect as it is, probably has at least a 75% success rate of achieving a Jewish marriage. That being said, that approximately 25% who are not successful finding mates via the shidduch process need to have other avenues such as singles gatherings, Shabbos table intros, etc to find someone to marry.

amother

Taupe

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 11:12 am

southernbubby wrote:

Why is the shidduch system the best way to help singles meet? Why not start with singles gatherings, Shabbos table intros etc and then only proceed to the shidduch system in the cases where these don't work? We'd eliminate a lot of the demeaning stuff, and also create a network of singles who can recommend matches to their friends.

PinkFridge

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 11:23 am

amother wrote:

No, let's start with working on middos and priorities so that the shidduch system won't be demeaning. When I was going out 30+ years ago things weren't perfect but they were much better. Without this kind of work, singles meetings will be problematic too, especially for people who are too young.

southernbubby

Mon, Nov 27 2017, 11:43 am

amother wrote:

Whenever I mention singles gatherings to singles, most have had bad experiences or simply felt that the type of person that they are looking for never materializes at those. Then someone has to create the gatherings. I don't know about you but I don't view myself as the type that could successfully galvanize the community to make these gatherings, so whose job is it exactly to orchestrate these events? Anyone could invite eligible singles to a Shabbos table, if you know people that you would like to set up but the same Jewish mamas that would reject a girl for their sons for lack of yichus might still do that if sonny boy brings home a girl that they don't like.

And anyone can network if they want to but if singles don't put themselves out there to help themselves and each other, then how is that network created? Are there activists other than endthemadness.com who are encouraging singles to form networks?

Bnei Berak 10

Tue, Nov 28 2017, 4:33 am

amother wrote:

Taupe, I am a BT and was married in the past. It was not a shidduch. It ended in divorce. My second and current husband was a shidduch. And as much as it is annoying to run out on dates over and over again I am a fierce defender of the shidduch system. In an unperfect world it is still the best system.
Young girls and boys usually need to have guidance with parents involved as parents many time seen things clearer and hey have more life experience. Girls and boys left on their own device will usually shoot the arrows and then circle them after. This is a HUGE HUGE mistake. In shidduch you first circle your goals and important matters and only then shoot the arrows.

Could you maybe elaborate what the "demeaning stuff" is? Isn't it preferable that demeaning stuff is coming up at an early stage rather than after the 7 brachot?

amother

Taupe

Tue, Nov 28 2017, 5:25 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

In the current system, as I see it, we've reduced our young people (mostly our girls) to commodities. Circling the goals sounds right until you realize how meaningless some of those goals really are. (Mother can't be larger than a size 6, no one in the family ever had diabetes, you get the idea.) People who meet on their own are quite capable of expressing their preferences (want to live in Israel, care about certain schools or yeshivas or jobs, whatever). They can weed out unsuitable candidates just as well as a shadchan. And of course, sometimes parents only think they know what's best for their child.

The advantage of meeting is that you get a sense of personality, and people can win each other over. To use a shallow example, but one that I know from real life, a young woman told shadchanim that she was not attracted to men who were losing their hair. At a shabbos meal, she found herself seated next to someone who was smart and kind and funny. He was too old for her and had hardly any hair. He only wanted to date thin girls, and she was quite overweight. Fifteen years later, they have four beautiful children. That shidduch might not have happened if they had gone through the system.

Bnei Berak 10

Tue, Nov 28 2017, 6:57 am

amother wrote:

1. Priorities: most important to have a clear look on what is major and what is minor and what is totally not important. Mother of size 6? So totally totally not important. Good midot? Number one importance!
2. "They can do the job just as good as a shadchan": I don't agree. There is a good reason why Judaism always have had shadchanut.
3. "Win each other over": This is a slippery slope which I consider very dangerous. Ever heard "love is blind"? Once an emotional bond has formed it influences your outlook, even to the extent where it goes against your best interests. You overlook red flags and signs. Have a good look what is happening in the non-religious world and see if they are any happier. I am sure they are not. They have no parents who is following the shiduch process, no guiding. No checking up on potential candidates. They are blinded by love. Look at the divorce rates they have and the religious communities divorce rates. It says everything.
I was well into my 40's when I met my 2nd husband. At a certain age single events might be suitable, especially for dviorce/widowed ppl. Those are ppl with life experience. At a young age I would say ONLY shidduchim.

icebreaker

Tue, Nov 28 2017, 7:28 am

I’m not 100% for the shidduch process but I’m not 100% against it either. I’d rather not get involved in my children’s process in finding a spouse and hope they begin to look for a spouse after growing into their own— college, career, traveling, if they want. But if they want me to, I’d help. Hoping I don’t need to, honestly. I think it may work for those who are young and need parental guidance (those this young shouldn’t even be getting married in my opinion, but whole different topic). But after a certain age, I’d hope people can find a compatible spouse for themselves. Overall, there’s no perfect way of going about it, so people should absolutely have the choice of which system works best for them.