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Brainwashing



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Motek




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 13 2005, 12:02 pm
So how would you define brainwashing?

Is instilling your values in your children brainwashing? Confused

if not, then what about those who refer to religious instruction, including what is taught in our frum homes and schools, as brainwashing (whether they use that word or imply it) - are they right? wrong?

how do you differentiate between teaching absolute truths (as in our Torah) and brainwashing?
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Tefila




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, May 13 2005, 6:22 pm
Brainwashed in my opinion is when someone can't think for themselves, can't question, can't figure out some things for themselves, walks and follows blindly everything! When they act like robots, not humans! That to me is brainwashed!

Educating our kids is not brainwashing we are educating them not forcing them and they still ask, question and sometimes do their own thing anyways. A child that follows everything and is a very well behaved kid in everything, all the time to me is BRAIN WASHED !
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Rivka




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, May 14 2005, 2:51 pm
Depends how you educate. Sometimes education can turn into brain washing when the teachers do not let the students question anything and don't answer questions and tell the student not to ask questions. Whether they say it is for religious reasons or otherwise.
There is a fine line between brain washing and education deffinately.
Some children are easily impressionable.
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1stimer




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, May 14 2005, 8:02 pm
I have to agree with Rivka on this, if someone grows up feeling afraid to ask questions, I'm not sure whether it is technically brainwashing, but in any case it is counterproductive. The kid, in all possibility, will not grow up with a passion for what is being taught. At best they will grow up not thinking, or resenting what has been taught. Or they will reject it.
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amother


 

Post Sat, May 14 2005, 8:26 pm
in a way we do brainwash our kids to believe in hashem and torah, until they are old enough to ask questions for themselves. not that its a bad thing, but I think we do it b/c until they are old enough to understand with their own logic and intelligence we want them to do the right thing. so we drill it into them until it becomes automatic. its part of educating a child to do whats right before he understands why it is so. plus if a child has been doing one way all his life he is not as likely to change his path when old enough to think for himself, and even if you look at an average adult, do you think they would actually believe with certainity in olam habah and the reward/ punishment system if it hadnt been been drilled into them from the time they were babies? its easier to believe in something thats not easily provable when we grow up with it. most people dont take the time and effort and really convince themselves of the truth of judaism so that they should believe on their own with needing the "brainwashing" they recieved in childhood to help them with their belief. (obviously I'm not talking about BTs)

the only bad brainwashing is when a person who is old enough to think for himself is told not to think and simply to do without questioning.
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roza




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, May 14 2005, 8:26 pm
<<So how would you define brainwashing? >>

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:

Quote:
1 : a forcible indoctrination to induce someone to give up basic political, social, or religious beliefs and attitudes and to accept contrasting regimented ideas
2 : persuasion by propaganda or salesmanship


Last edited by roza on Sat, May 14 2005, 8:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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1stimer




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, May 14 2005, 8:29 pm
Quote:
2 : persuasion by propaganda or salesmanship


Now, that is quite an open definition. If s/1 is a good salesman, is he brainwashing?
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Motek




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 15 2005, 4:40 am
amother - since our Sages say that Jews are "believers children of believers," then telling our children about Hashem is telling them something they already know, albeit not intellectually

when our Sages say that the fetus is taught the entire Torah in the uterus, then teaching children Torah and about mitzvos is teaching them something that they learned before

so rather than indoctrinating (drilling) them with ideas about G-d, Torah, and mitzvos, chinuch is actually reminding them of that which they knew already on a soul-level

Quote:
if you look at an average adult, do you think they would actually believe with certainity in olam habah and the reward/ punishment system if it hadnt been been drilled into them from the time they were babies?


what's the alternative?
that they should believe that Mother Teresa and Hitler both die and how they lived their lives doesn't matter?
I think most people, intuitively believe in reward and punishment because people believe there are logic and justice to the universe, and they believe that the good guys will get their reward and the bad guys will get their come-uppance. This is a theme that runs through world literature and is a basic human belief.
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1stimer




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 15 2005, 4:46 am
amother wrote:
most people dont take the time and effort and really convince themselves of the truth of judaism so that they should believe on their own


That is terrible. How much is their judaism worth if it is just rote? Parents shld educate children to think, and to want to understand and to come to a strong belief in Hashem and the Torah.
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Motek




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 17 2005, 6:54 am
It has been said that someone who raises their children with a religious education cannot be said to be brainwashing them, any more than one who raises their children with a secular education. Weren't the citizens of the Soviet Union (and other communist countries) brainwashed with atheism?

also:

Brainwashing is to remove what is in the brain and put something else there.

Teaching is not brainwashing as it is to fill a void in the brain!

do you agree? disagree?

I think it makes sense.
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roza




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 05 2005, 10:54 am
with little children the term 'indoctrination' applies more then brainwashing.
with grown ups the term 'brainwashing' applies..
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Tefila




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 05 2005, 11:30 am
Quote:
Teaching is not brainwashing as it is to fill a void in the brain!
do you agree? disagree?

Depends on the age and the acquired knowledge or lack of knowledge that they start out w/h, I guess
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Motek




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 06 2005, 11:42 am
Regarding the questions teens, people have, I read that a mashpia suggested a yiddishkeit diary and a girl took her up on the idea and really likes it.

The mashpia said, you have so many questions, why don't you write them all down, and when you get an answer fill it in. It's a great tool. It can also be used to make observations about Jewish life and to list goals and hachlatos.
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gryp




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 06 2005, 11:44 am
brilliant!
thanx for sharing.
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Tefila




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 06 2005, 11:47 am
Quote:
The mashpia said, you have so many questions, why don't you write them all down, and when you get an answer fill it in. It's a great tool. It can also be used to make observations about Jewish life and to list goals and hachlatos.

I want to get hold of that mashpia too Smile
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