Wisdom you have experienced from disabled people

groisamomma

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 6:54 pm

youngishbear wrote:

I should probably do a spinoff...

Again, not trying to be negative, just informative. Forced sterilization (including sterilization of people not really able to consent) is now considered a heinous act of discrimination. Some even have very strong negative opinions regarding services such as Dor Yeshorim because the underlying principal is a form of eugenics. So I've learned recently.

(Whew I'm running out of quotation marks here.)

So the thinking here is to let nature run its course and if it's bashert for future children to suffer with Tay-Sachs then they will, because taking measures to prevent such pregnancies is a form of cleansing. Just to clarify, in their minds it's cleansing humanity by taking measures to avoid creating more suffering humans in this world?

youngishbear

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 6:59 pm

groisamomma wrote:

They find it hurtful that normally abled people have written off the lives of people with genetic disabilities as worthless. Many PWD suffer more pain than others, or are limited in certain areas, but they don't wish that they'd never been born.

To be clear, I don't agree that Dor Yeshorim is a bad thing. I guess I understand their concern from the perspective of it being a slippery slope to an era of "designer babies."

ETA: I just read the post that horrified OP in the other thread. Quoting: "We test for Tay-Sachs, don't we?" That is her justification for banning all people with inheritable "conditions" (what a vague term) from reproducing. Slippery slope indeed.

Last edited by youngishbear on Tue, Dec 05 2017, 7:24 pm; edited 2 times in total

amother

Babyblue

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 7:02 pm

I think we should apply my son's wisdom to this whole debate.

To paraphrase

Yes there are people who are "dis"abled.
But it's not what you think.
It doesn't mean they are not good.
It doesn't even necessarily mean theu are suffering.
And even so -
*** Hashem gives suffering as a kindness to help people grow***
It just means that they have a different tafkid in the world.
A different way to serve HKBH.
That's all.

southernbubby

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 7:04 pm

Here is an article that talks about when it is plausible and when it is wrong, to sterilize a person who is mentally disabled:

https://www.theatlantic.com/he.....9765/

It is something that I can't pass judgment on, being that it is a decision that must be made by those who have the day to day care of an intellectually impaired person. Under some circumstances, such as a mild intellectual impairment, since this person possibly could bear and raise a child, the decision should not simply be given to the care giver to make.

I would say, however, that someone who is profoundly disabled and who requires complete care, is most likely approved for whatever procedures makes their care easier, including menstrual management. These women are bedridden and hard to move and care for so they may also be given growth stunting hormones.

southernbubby

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 7:11 pm

youngishbear wrote:

To be honest, I haven't developed strong opinions on the topic as much as I've become aware that many people with disabilities have very strong opinions on the topic, so that's what I shared.

I'm sure each case is unique. It's very different to say "our policy is to do this to women who are like that" than it is to say "in this particular case the woman was in such and such condition with this and that vulnerability and the best medical decision was to do that."

There was Supreme Court ruling on the issue in 1927. It wasn't pretty.

I think that each case must be approved by a board of several people. It would be totally wrong to have some sort of protocol that demanded sterilization for all folks with certain impairments.