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Good or bad Idea to move the US embassy to Yerushalayim?
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Poll

Is it a good or bad idea to move the US embassy to Yerushalyim?
Good
 44%  [ 51 ]
Bad
 48%  [ 55 ]
Other
 7%  [ 8 ]
Total Votes : 114


PinkFridge









  


Post  Wed, Dec 06 2017, 8:28 pm
Mommyg8 wrote:
So, if Bill Clinton would have done this, it would have been ok?

Also, some of us in America don't think he's as bad as you're painting.


Yeah, I don't think he's done everything wrong. Justice Gorsuch, for example.
I think that the Roy Moore endorsement really got to me. Ok, you might argue that he wants to vote him in so Mitch McConnell can do what he says he'll do, which is to immediately subject Moore to an ethics panel. Yeah, right.
Anyway, let's please not go there, I.e. down the Moore road. I was just bringing it up to explain why even though I'm a Republican, even though I think that there are some positive things that have happened the past 11 months, as of late, I'm more likely to have a negative knee-jerk reaction than not. I wonder if there's more to it than just keeping a campaign promise; I can't help it.
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PinkFridge









  


Post  Wed, Dec 06 2017, 8:37 pm
siuthernbubby wrote:
Trump does well when he uses the teleprompter which he appeared to do and I am not sure who wrote the speech but it sounded good. I hope there won't be unintended negative consequences but the Reform movement is apparently backing the Palestinians so I hope that divisions between Jews won't get worse. Trump asked for peace and I hope that there will be peace.


SixofWands wrote:
What Rabbi Jacobs said was,


Quote:
"While we share the President’s belief that the US Embassy should... be moved from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, we cannot support his decision to begin preparing that move now, absent a comprehensive plan for a peace process," the statement read. "We urge the President to do everything in his power to move forward with efforts to bring true peace to the region and take no unilateral steps."


I don't interpret that as "backing the Palestinians."

I'd worry more about Netanyahu's apparent (but now denied) statement that he doesn't have to worry about what the majority of US Jews think because they're a "lost cause" that will "disappear in a generation or two." Because these are the folks that keep US politicians' feet to the fire with respect to support of Israel. And I don't think they much appreciate his dismissal of them.



PF here:
I'm sorry, I can't take Jacobs seriously. Unless he's spoken as vociferously about the Palestinians getting their act together, the tragic failed experiment of Gaza, which showed Israel's good will more than any Arab overture I can think of, etc.

And the Reform are the ones who are responsible for US support of Israel? Who threaten to withdraw their $$$ to Israel, who promote J Street? I'm sorry, I love all Jews, passionately, but the Reform establishment has a lot to answer for.
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Laiya









  


Post  Wed, Dec 06 2017, 11:00 pm
I'm happy about the Embassy, but that's a feeling, not an opinion. EY never stops needing Hashem's protection....but easy for me to say from here in chutz l'aretz.

I thought it was interesting that Trump did not clarify the meaning of "Jerusalem" or borders. So there hasn't been an actual policy change.

wrote:
Nevertheless, if the U.S. continues to declare that Jerusalem’s final borders should be negotiated (meaning that it leaves open the possibility of a Palestinian capital in the eastern part of Jerusalem), and if the U.S. refrains from describing Israel’s capital as “united” or “undivided” Jerusalem, and if the U.S. continues to refrain from taking any steps that recognize Israel’s annexation of the territories east of the 1967 line, and assuming that the new embassy will be located in Jerusalem west of that line—then Palestinian, Arab, and Muslim leaders who are not itching for violence should be able to legitimately say that Trump’s declaration effectively changes nothing.

In fact, if Palestinian, Arab, and Muslim leaders object to the declaration and threaten violence, they should be called on to specify the cause of their anger. Which Jerusalem do they deny Israel’s right to name as its capital? If it is Jerusalem east of the 1967 line, Trump’s declaration does nothing to change that: The U.S. still does not recognize Israel’s annexation of the territories east of the line. The status of that part of Jerusalem is up for negotiations. If the anger is about residential, non-holy Jerusalem within the pre-1967 line—the capital of the State of Israel since its early beginnings—then it implies a blanket refusal to accept the legitimacy of Israel within any borders. To that, the U.S. should not bow.


https://www.theatlantic.com/in.....ic/547688/
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Laiya









  


Post  Wed, Dec 06 2017, 11:04 pm
Fox wrote:
This has Mohammed bin Salman's fingerprints all over it.

Arab leaders have grown increasingly frustrated with what they see as Palestinian intransigence in the last few years -- especially as each of the Palestinian factions has its hand out constantly.

The Saudis have become especially disgusted and have said so in pretty damning public terms. They have apparently reached the conclusions that Israel is not going anywhere; the Palestinians are a drain on everyone's resources; and they are more concerned by Iran's influence in the region.

My prediction is that there will be a great many dramatic announcements and vague threats from all over the Arab world condemning this action and expressing solidarity with Palestinians. Then the whole topic will more or less go away, and by the time any concrete action occurs, everyone will be focused on something else.

MbS's grand view almost requires a level of cooperation with Israel, and I think he's purposely edging toward that goal. While I don't necessarily believe that MbS is strategically deceitful, he has a long way to go before the Saudi Arabian swamp is drained and his visions are on track. Both the U.S. and Israel should be careful not to put all their Middle Eastern eggs is this single basket.


I agree re Saudi Arabia, and that this is probably the first step of a broader plan.

Saudi Arabia has two major problems. One, the sole "product" driving their entire economy, crude oil, has been nose-diving fast due to competition from fracking. And two, Iran.

The people of Saudi Arabia want to modernize, stabilize their economy, build international financial relationships, etc.

It makes sense that Mbs prefers to build strategic diplomatic ties with Israel, rather than continue throwing money at Wahabi terror groups, for both reasons. Of course, no one is announcing this in public.
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mommyma









  


Post  Thu, Dec 07 2017, 12:02 am
southernbubby wrote:
Trump does well when he uses the teleprompter which he appeared to do and I am not sure who wrote the speech but it sounded good. I hope there won't be unintended negative consequences but the Reform movement is apparently backing the Palestinians so I hope that divisions between Jews won't get worse. Trump asked for peace and I hope that there will be peace.
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PinkFridge









  


Post  Thu, Dec 07 2017, 8:31 am
Laiya wrote:
I agree re Saudi Arabia, and that this is probably the first step of a broader plan.

Saudi Arabia has two major problems. One, the sole "product" driving their entire economy, crude oil, has been nose-diving fast due to competition from fracking. And two, Iran.

The people of Saudi Arabia want to modernize, stabilize their economy, build international financial relationships, etc.

It makes sense that Mbs prefers to build strategic diplomatic ties with Israel, rather than continue throwing money at Wahabi terror groups, for both reasons. Of course, no one is announcing this in public.


This is what I meant in my first post.
Yes, Trump sounds great in his speeches. Whoever his speechwriter(s) is (are) he/she/they have some well-deserved book deals in his/her/future. And yes, it's been on the books for over 20 years so it's about time.
But of course there's more to his recognizing Israel than all that. By all that, I include giving all the Jews in his life a great Chanukah gift, of course. And there always will be more than meets the eye. Which might be just fine. Or not.

ETA 2 hours later: just listening to Mike Gallagher, who is quite competent at what he does, but not the most sophisticated of the Salem hosts. He's going on and on, giving props to the pres. for doing the right thing, keeping the promise, acting with integrity, etc. I'm sure the thought of an ulterior moment never entered his mind.
Again, not that I would have a beef with any sort of other motive. This is the game of real politics and foreign relations. It's just that with Trump we don't know if he's seeing something politically or personally expedient, short-term or long-term.
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marina









  


Post  Thu, Dec 07 2017, 2:17 pm
Angry and violent Muslims give Trump credibility, energize his base, and will make his ban seem more reasonable as it makes its way through the courts. So that's his motive.
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DrMom









  


Post  Thu, Dec 07 2017, 4:45 pm
marina wrote:
Angry and violent Muslims give Trump credibility, energize his base, and will make his ban seem more reasonable as it makes its way through the courts. So that's his motive.

That is pretty ridiculous.

There is no shortage of angry Muslims who are doing a great job of being violent and murderous.
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Fox









  


Post  Thu, Dec 07 2017, 5:37 pm
marina wrote:
Angry and violent Muslims give Trump credibility, energize his base, and will make his ban seem more reasonable as it makes its way through the courts. So that's his motive.

Well, I suppose there is something to that.

If you surveyed Americans and asked, "Would you like to invite people to your country who believe violence is an appropriate response when someone announces a symbolic change that will arguably not affect them?", quite a few of us might say, "Nah, we'll pass."

Or if, indeed, that is Trump's hidden agenda, perhaps the Palestinians, et. al, could defy him by going about their business, saying, "Eh, put your embassy wherever you want, but you do realize that rent in Yerushalayim is ridiculous."
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Mommyg8









  


Post  Thu, Dec 07 2017, 6:07 pm
marina wrote:
Angry and violent Muslims give Trump credibility, energize his base, and will make his ban seem more reasonable as it makes its way through the courts. So that's his motive.


Marina, that just doesn't make any sense. I think it's so funny when people either call him extremely stupid, or, if what marina is saying is true, beyond brilliant. Do you really think he has thought this through all the way, can predict how people will react, and can predict public opinion? I would imagine that would be a HUGE gamble, c'mon, do you really think he's that smart? I am a sort of Trump supporter, and I do think he's quite smart, but he's not THAT brilliant.
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Rubber Ducky









  


Post  Thu, Dec 07 2017, 6:28 pm
Perhaps President Trump's motive is simple: he really wants to keep his campaign promises.
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southernbubby









  


Post  Thu, Dec 07 2017, 6:36 pm
Rubber Ducky wrote:
Perhaps President Trump's motive is simple: he really wants to keep his campaign promises.


1)I like what he did.
2)I don't often like what he does.
3)I hope it won't backfire.
4)I hope that the US will protect Israel.
5)Trump usually doesn't have simple motives.
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moonstone









  


Post  Thu, Dec 07 2017, 6:38 pm
Rubber Ducky wrote:
Perhaps President Trump's motive is simple: he really wants to keep his campaign promises.


I think this is true. It seems that this is an issue he really believes in.
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allthingsblue









  


Post  Thu, Dec 07 2017, 6:40 pm
Mommyg8 wrote:
Marina, that just doesn't make any sense. I think it's so funny when people either call him extremely stupid, or, if what marina is saying is true, beyond brilliant. Do you really think he has thought this through all the way, can predict how people will react, and can predict public opinion? I would imagine that would be a HUGE gamble, c'mon, do you really think he's that smart? I am a sort of Trump supporter, and I do think he's quite smart, but he's not THAT brilliant.


It doesn't take brilliance to predict that the arabs will go crazy or how the world would react to such a thing.
Even I predicted it.
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fs









  


Post  Thu, Dec 07 2017, 8:22 pm
Google DT's IQ level is 156, which is genius level.
To most people he does things that doesn't make sense, but not to him. He did become a billionaire. It takes some smarts.
I don't know why he is acting on this promise rather than on any other election promise he made. But what I do know is that it is good for Israel's sovereignty. Israel's GPS systems work of US satellites. And if US satellites doesn't recognize Israel's capital, it does nothing for Israel to recognize Jerusalem as its capital. Because the whole GPS system in Israel doesn't go according to that. So it is better for Israel.
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Deep









  


Post  Thu, Dec 07 2017, 8:28 pm
fs wrote:
Google DT's IQ level is 156, which is genius level.
To most people he does things that doesn't make sense, but not to him. He did become a billionaire. It takes some smarts.
I don't know why he is acting on this promise rather than on any other election promise he made. But what I do know is that it is good for Israel's sovereignty. Israel's GPS systems work of US satellites. And if US satellites doesn't recognize Israel's capital, it does nothing for Israel to recognize Jerusalem as its capital. Because the whole GPS system in Israel doesn't go according to that. So it is better for Israel.


https://www.snopes.com/donald-.....-quotient/

There is no way he would score anywhere near there with his limited verbal ability.
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Mommyg8









  


Post  Thu, Dec 07 2017, 9:16 pm
Deep wrote:
https://www.snopes.com/donald-trumps-intelligence-quotient/

There is no way he would score anywhere near there with his limited verbal ability.


There is no way his IQ is anywhere near 156. On the other hand, I watched a you-tube clip from about five years ago, where he was being interviewed about his views about finance, etc. He came across extremely articulate and knowledgeable (in that particular clip) without a teleprompter, at least IMHO.
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