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Why is fake trief food considered Kosher?
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amother
Magenta


 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 5:38 pm
I don't eat fake trief food, and I don't serve fake trief at home. I've explained this to my family, why I won't try a "fabulous" imitation cream sauce on meat, or use non-dairy whipped cream on dessert after a fleshig meal. I don't buy beef bacon or imitation crab. If I'm going to keep a kosher home, I want my food t to look kosher.

Recently my grandson said that he was served a "kosher cheeseburger" at a yeshiva friend's home. I do not want him to ever eat a cheeseburger, even if someone supposedly frum told him that it was kosher.

I can't understand why fake trief food is considered kosher. It certainly doesn't look kosher. I believe that we should be setting an example for others. And we should have some self-control and not need to eat McDonalds and sushi.

My friends and family all eat trendy kosher, so we don't discuss this subject. My LOR said he agreed with me, but his wife serves a Cool Whip-style pie after meat meals. Can someone explain why fake trief food is kosher?


Last edited by amother on Sun, Dec 10 2017, 5:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Notsobusy




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 5:42 pm
I agree with you about the cheeseburgers, imitation crab, and facon.

Non dairy whipped cream is different to me. Maybe because growing up we never heard of dairy whipped cream, so I don't associate whipped cream with dairy and therefore I have no problem eating it after meat.
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tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 5:43 pm
why do you think that it’s not Kosher? I don’t understand your argument.
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Notsobusy




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 5:44 pm
tichellady wrote:
why do you think that it’s not Kosher? I don’t understand your argument.


I understand why it's kosher, it's just a feeling, it feels wrong to eat a cheeseburger, even if it's kosher. I don't think anyone who eats a cheeseburger with parve cheese is doing something wrong, but I don't want to eat it because it feels wrong to me.
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 5:47 pm
There is no non-kosher food involved.
There is no mixing of meat and dairy.

For some foods, they should be served from the container after a meat meal so no one would think it's dairy.

The most I could think of is maras ayin.
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amother
Tan


 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 5:47 pm
Are you a baalas teshuva? Maybe you feel this way because you grew up with these things and later stayed away from them because they are assur?
Growing up frum, I never thought of these things as inherently wrong. They Are only wrong because of a technicality. So cheese burger is wrong only because it’s milk and meat together. But if it’s not cheese, or not meat, then it’s fine. Same with Kani - if it’s not crab, it’s from a kosher fish, then great! Marshmallows - yay, they come in Kosher! I don’t have negative associations with non- kosher food. They just don’t follow the requirements so I don’t eat them.
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octopus




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 5:48 pm
chazal absolutely agree with you! Even if something is kosher, there is still an issue of maaras ayin. Why do you think sefardim don't eat dairy and fish together? (at least I think that is the reason).
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yehudis1056




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 5:49 pm
I never realized cool whip is fake treif. Do u not serve pareve ice cream?

Kosher bacon is the same as beef fry which is similar to pastrami so don’t see why that’s an issue.

Cheese burgers I can understand a little. You mean it’s following the letter of the law and not the spirt. I can understand even tho I don’t agree. But you’re lumping together a lot of different things. I Don’t think you should equate whipped cream with a kosher cheese burger. There are different dargos.

And I never understood the sushi argument. We are a wandering people we pick up foods from our host countries. I promise you in the time of the bais hamikdash they weren’t eating shnitzel and potato kugul. Are you ok with kosher pizza stores? How about kosher Chinese? Did you ever make lo mein for supper? Or have fettuccine Alfredo? Why is that any more ok than sushi?
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tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 5:49 pm
Notsobusy wrote:
I understand why it's kosher, it's just a feeling, it feels wrong to eat a cheeseburger, even if it's kosher. I don't think anyone who eats a cheeseburger with parve cheese is doing something wrong, but I don't want to eat it because it feels wrong to me.


Ok but there’s no reason to add any more restrictions to the million rules we have as Orthodox Jews. Personally, I’m inclined to try to do as much that is permitted as possible, so as not to create the feeling of being stifled by rules. Today people know that there is fake cheese, fake crab and soy milk etc- it’s not a maarat ayen issue anymore. Authentic Sushi can easily be Kosher ( made with salmon or tuna). I see no reason to deny ourselves pleasures that are halakhically acceptable.
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simba




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 5:50 pm
Kosher is not a feeling kinds of mitzva.
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amother
Tan


 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 5:55 pm
Also op do you wear sheitels? I dont want to derail the thread but it’s very similar in my mind (I’m not saying halachically or hashkafically- I’m saying in my mind!)
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GetReal




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 5:56 pm
The issue with dairy and fish is a different one. We don't eat meat and fish because chazal say it's a health hazard. In one place it says not to eat dairy with fish. Since it's not repeated anywhere else it's assumed to be a typo and refer to meat and fish. But some still don't eat dairy and fish, or just don't have milk and fish.
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GetReal




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 5:57 pm
I think of kosher like allergies. Someone allergic to dairy can have soy milk. There's no spirit of the law.
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Stars




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 6:03 pm
Wait why do you think you can control what your grandson eats?
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thunderstorm




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 6:05 pm
Op, do you not eat chicken Capons either? Kosher chicken Capons are deboned chicken bones with the skin intact. A chicken capon literally means a castrated chicken which is not kosher. There are other cuts of kosher meat named after treife meat , would you not eat those either?
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Notsobusy




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 6:06 pm
tichellady wrote:
Ok but there’s no reason to add any more restrictions to the million rules we have as Orthodox Jews. Personally, I’m inclined to try to do as much that is permitted as possible, so as not to create the feeling of being stifled by rules. Today people know that there is fake cheese, fake crab and soy milk etc- it’s not a maarat ayen issue anymore. Authentic Sushi can easily be Kosher ( made with salmon or tuna). I see no reason to deny ourselves pleasures that are halakhically acceptable.


You're right about not adding restrictions, so if my kids wanted to eat such foods I would let them. For myself, it feels wrong to me and so I wouldn't eat it. But I don't have a problem with anyone else eating it. I don't feel deprived or stifled, I have enough food I do like and I don't have any desire to eat a cheeseburger, real or fake.

And for those who are asking, I know I'm not the op, but I agree with a lot of what she wrote. I'm FFB and wear a sheital and don't see anything wrong with wearing one.
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amother
Magenta


 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 6:28 pm
amother wrote:
Also op do you wear sheitels? I dont want to derail the thread but it’s very similar in my mind (I’m not saying halachically or hashkafically- I’m saying in my mind!)



I wear scarves.
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 6:29 pm
octopus wrote:
chazal absolutely agree with you! Even if something is kosher, there is still an issue of maaras ayin. Why do you think sefardim don't eat dairy and fish together? (at least I think that is the reason).


You should therefore have the container on the table if you serve something at a meat meal that looks dairy, but isn't, eg soya milk. Nowadays we are so used to pareve icecream, milk and so on that I wonder if this is necessary?
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amother
Vermilion


 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 6:29 pm
Deciding you do not want to eat foods that are 'fake treif' is wonderful, kudos to you. What is interesting to me is that it bothers you that others eat such food, to the point that you posted about it on here.
I have a close friend who decided to take it upon herself not to listen to 75% of jewish music, because she finds it too rocky and considers it treif. kudos to her. she does not tell me what music I should listen to. ever.
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amother
Magenta


 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 6:33 pm
amother wrote:
Are you a baalas teshuva? Maybe you feel this way because you grew up with these things and later stayed away from them because they are assur?
Growing up frum, I never thought of these things as inherently wrong. They Are only wrong because of a technicality. So cheese burger is wrong only because it’s milk and meat together. But if it’s not cheese, or not meat, then it’s fine. Same with Kani - if it’s not crab, it’s from a kosher fish, then great! Marshmallows - yay, they come in Kosher! I don’t have negative associations with non- kosher food. They just don’t follow the requirements so I don’t eat them.


Yes, I'm BT. I hadn't thought that was relevant, but you are absolutely correct about this affecting my attitude. When I was growing up we ate "kosher style," with American supermarket meat. It looked a lot more religious than the frum food I'm seeing now.
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