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Why is fake trief food considered Kosher?
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 6:34 pm
I don't think we need to add more restrictions either. Pareve cream, ice cream and yogurt is not really the same as dairy versions. I've had so called facon and wasn't impressed.

I can see why someone might have a hard time eating a cheeseburger if they are not used to the concept. But fake cheese or fake meat are pale imitations of the real thing.

Adding unneeded restrictions is what led Chava to eat from the tree.

Please don't.

If you don't like fake cream, fake bacon or shrimp, don't eat it. Don't enforce this rule on your kids.
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tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 6:38 pm
amother wrote:
Yes, I'm BT. I hadn't thought that was relevant, but you are absolutely correct about this affecting my attitude. When I was growing up we ate "kosher style," with American supermarket meat. It looked a lot more religious than the frum food I'm seeing now.


Food is not religious. Kosher style brisket is not kosher, it doesn’t matter how you feel about it. Kosher fake crab is Kosher, regardless of your comfort level. You are confusing two very different things.
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amother
Periwinkle


 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 6:38 pm
octopus wrote:
chazal absolutely agree with you! Even if something is kosher, there is still an issue of maaras ayin. Why do you think sefardim don't eat dairy and fish together? (at least I think that is the reason).

Actually, chazal disagree. There is a whole list in the gemara of kosher ways to imitate treif. The only maaris ayin issue specified is that one shouldn't drink a non-dairy milk with a meat meal. And the dairy and fish has nothing to do with maaris ayin, completely different reason for it and it may even have been a transcription error.
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amother
Tan


 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 6:40 pm
So I think those that are balei teshuva or Geirim have a different hashkafah on these things. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong. Just different. Those that grew up frum are not always concerned about the ta-am of the mitzvah, unless it’s pointed out and stressed in halacha or by modern day poskim. So they follow the rules meticulously, but don’t think much past that. There are rules, they follow them properly, with the correct machshava, mission accomplished. There are some areas, like on shabbos, we aren’t supposed to do weekday activities. And so we won’t exercise for example. That is very much about the spirit of shabbos. But that is brought down in halacha. Other areas, like kashrus, aren’t treated the same. It’s a Chok. So we do it, but we aren’t concerned with hashem’s reasoning and intention with giving us that mitzvah.
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amother
Periwinkle


 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 6:51 pm
tichellady wrote:
Food is not religious. Kosher style brisket is not kosher, it doesn’t matter how you feel about it. Kosher fake crab is Kosher, regardless of your comfort level. You are confusing two very different things.

This. Also, what a lot of people who haven't really studied halacha don't realize is that halacha is often counter to what you would think. The reason you need to ask a Rav if you're unsure about something is not because he's memorized the shulchan aruch and you haven't; it's because he understands the entire halachic system and knows what details make a difference and how halachic conclusions are reached, which isn't always intuitive or logical. If there are 3 pieces of meat on the table and you KNOW one of them is treif, you are allowed, according to halacha, to eat all three. No matter how much that doesn't make sense, that is what the halacha says. Halacha is based on what a specific set of rules says it is, not what you feel it should be.
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ValleyMom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 6:51 pm
why is kosher bacon considered kosher?
Because it is NOT bacon.

Why is a kosher cheese burger considered kosher?
Because it is cheese on a VEGGIE burger.

When my friend says I can eat at her home because she bought a brisket (at Whole Foods) I cannot eat there... because her brisket is NOT kosher.

I don't even understand the premise of this thread.
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Boca00




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 7:18 pm
Chazal say that for everything Hashem forbade, He created a permitted alternative. I don't see a reason to be frummer than Hashem.
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amother
Slateblue


 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 7:18 pm
op, totally agree with you! dh told me a while ago he wont have this kind of stuff in my house. and that its maras ayin. its not in the spirit of law either. if we do this what will our kids do? hadoros holchos ymismaatos!. we need to be careful. im not here bashing anyone. im just agreeing with op. and my rav said the same.

what about people buying bagels on pesach even though it has a hechsher for pesach. its going too far. self control is one of the morals I strive to teach my kids
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 9:20 pm
I'm a BT, and I love recreating my old comfort foods with kosher ingredients. Sometimes I have to get really creative, but that's all part of the challenge.

DH is very chassidish, and he will eat whatever I make for him. He trusts that I know the difference between sour cream and Tofutti products.

I'd be very sad without kosher "parve beef crumbles". I love tacos with cheddar cheese and real sour cream on top, and I can live without the real beef. I can't taste the difference at all, once the seasonings have been added.

I feel like I've gone the extra mile to make sure everything in my cooking is kosher, so my FEELINGS are in alignment with what I'm doing in the kitchen. As long as everything is kosher al pi halacha, that's good enough for me.
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shirachadasha




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 9:34 pm
amother wrote:
Actually, chazal disagree. There is a whole list in the gemara of kosher ways to imitate treif. The only maaris ayin issue specified is that one shouldn't drink a non-dairy milk with a meat meal. And the dairy and fish has nothing to do with maaris ayin, completely different reason for it and it may even have been a transcription error.

One may drink non-dairy "milk" with a meat meal. Chazal used the example of almond milk and said the almond shells have to be in view.
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amother
Indigo


 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 10:25 pm
What about a nut cake/cookies on Pesach?
Are you ok with that?
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essie14




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 10:42 pm
There's no "spirit of the law" in regards to kosher.
There's no such thing as "frum food".
As someone said above, they weren't eating shnitzel in the bet hamikdash.
Just because I serve sushi salad, or tacos made with fake meat and cheddar cheese , doesn't make me any less "frum" than you. My home is 100% kosher. And my non religious friend who makes treif brisket, potato latkes fried in lard, etc isn't frum or keeping kosher.
No matter what her feelings are when she's cooking it.
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 11:15 pm
Op.... Get a Rov or a Maspia... YESTERDAY...

Fake crab.... worst case scenario, not so heimish.. maybe not our minhag.

What you are advocating is "Megaleh ponim bhalacha" Making up your own gezerahs which borders dangerously close to apikorsus
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imeinu




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 11:28 pm
naturalmom5 wrote:
Op.... Get a Rov or a Maspia... YESTERDAY...

Fake crab.... worst case scenario, not so heimish.. maybe not our minhag.

What you are advocating is "Megaleh ponim bhalacha" Making up your own gezerahs which borders dangerously close to apikorsus


I disagree.
I am FFB and I stay away as well from fake crab or kosher cheeseburgers. It seems wrong. And my rav agrees.
I find this similar to Kosher L'Pesach Pizza and Bagels.

on the other hand, we are not supposed to be disgusted by non-kosher food. We should have the attitude that I would love to eat it but I am only not eating it because the Torah forbids it.
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amother
Lavender


 

Post Sun, Dec 10 2017, 11:58 pm
You sound just like my completely non religious father, who I love dearly and have to work hard at being respectful when he goes off about this. It’s because, Halacha.
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farm




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 11 2017, 1:10 am
amother wrote:
Yes, I'm BT. I hadn't thought that was relevant, but you are absolutely correct about this affecting my attitude. When I was growing up we ate "kosher style," with American supermarket meat. It looked a lot more religious than the frum food I'm seeing now.

Bam. This is why you are so wrong. Trying to be holier than God and being bothered by 100% Kosher versions of popular food leading you to feel nostalgic for the 100% treif d'oraysa kosher style meat of your youth. Dangerous
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 11 2017, 2:08 am
kashrut is not a feeliy mitzvah, as someone else said above. It is cut and dry. If something is kosher, you can eat it. It doesnt matter what it looks like or what it is called. And if something were not kosher, no matter what it looked like or was called you cant eat it.

There shouldnt be any emotions connected to what you are eating. Its simply what you see is what you get and if it IS kosher, it IS kosher.

Dont be holier than the law.
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penguin




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 11 2017, 2:14 am
I do have the feelings that facon and pseudo-crab smell too much of running after NS copying the outside world.

So although the Gemara does say that for everything assur there's something similar muttar, nothing good can come of constantly and obsessively trying to ape the fashions, music and foods of other cultures.

Therefore I may put cheese on my pareve vegeburger because it tastes good, not because I wish I could go to Burger King. I am kind of curious about chicken Kiev made with margarine, but not curious enough to try making it.

Also the Gemara says, don't say traif food is disgusting, rather say it's probably delicious, but I refrain because it's a chok from HKBH. Mrs. Esther Wein does say that sheratzim are not like that, part of HKBH elevating us from Mitzrayim was to be above such things. Therefore most of us have an intrinsic disgust in them.

I totally don't think it extends to pareve ice cream or whip, which you're not eating together with meat.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 11 2017, 2:16 am
I do get what you mean.

From what I understand, parve margarine was at first considered questionable due to maarat ayin concerns.

A few years ago the Jerusalem Rabbinate would not give a KLP hecsher to kitniyot-free restaurants serving quinoa, even though the quinoa itself had an excellent KLP kitniyot-free hecsher. Why? Because it "looked like kitnoyot!"

I guess it just takes a while before things become accepted as commonplace enough that here is no suspicious of wrongdoing.
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Teomima




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 11 2017, 3:29 am
I completely agree with Raisin. If you have these food prejudices, fine, but don't impose them on anyone else.

It's a rather slippery slope, after all. I mean, I've never heard of anyone going so far as to not use parve whipped cream, but if you're already doing that, I hope you're not using margarine, either. That's basically parve butter, after all. See what I mean about slippery slope?

Personally, I'm a vegetarian, and have been for most of my life. When I have a veggie burger it's not because I want to replace meat, it's because it tastes good. I'm not spending my time worrying someone will think I'm eating meat. It's about MY relationship with food. Kashrut is about my relationship with hashem, and our relationship with food. Hashem knows I'm not eating treif and that's good enough for me.
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