Gender identity confusion is not hardwired into the brain

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simcha2

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 10:10 am

Squishy wrote:

I think there are some that do exist.

Can you likewise admit that some of the surgeries are needless?

http://www.newsweek.com/transg.....76777

I think the reason more are presenting are because of social contigon. Some of these would resolve on their own.

I agree there is probably some percentage of people who are confused or fluid. I don't know the percentage, but don't think it's 98%, leaving only unusual cases.

But like every issue there is nuance involved and unfortunately most people see this as black and white.

amother

Mint

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 10:13 am

simcha2 wrote:

So what about when you see a girl, but her dna says xxy?

It is extremely rare for a girl to have XXY DNA .Klinefelter syndrome is almost exclusively by males.

Anyway it would be no different than other genetic defect. She would still be 100% female. Unless she also has other androgynous issues.

This question would only be valid if gender confusion would be limited to those who can be scientifically proven to have different chromosomes than others of their gender.

PinkFridge

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 10:13 am

Is it just me or is anyone else flummoxed by the (is it a?) fact that a minor can't get a tattoo without permission but can start gender reassignment?

33055

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 10:22 am

simcha2 wrote:

And I don't think 98% of the people should be steered and locked into this course.

I used to wear men's clothes before it was popular when I went to school. It was my thing. I would buy old bowling shirts and uniform shirts with guys' names embroidered on them. I also wore work boots at the time. It was my little rebellion.

Imagine if I had helpful friends and counselors. If I were a lost and lonely kid, this would give me a place.

SixOfWands

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 10:46 am

Let's look at the article.

The author is the president of the "American College of Pediatriciians." That's a "socially conservative advocacy group of pediatricians and other healthcare professionals in the United States." It is "open to pediatric medical professionals of all religions" provided that they "hold true to the group's core beliefs: that life begins at conception; and that the traditional family unit, headed by an opposite-relations couple, poses far fewer risk factors in the adoption and raising of children." So they have a pre-conceived notion of this issue, and she is writing an advocacy piece to support her ideas. This is not anywhere near neutral or peer-reviewed.

You should also be aware that ACPeds has been listed as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center, for "propagating damaging falsehoods about LGBT people". A number of mainstream researchers, including the director of the US National Institutes of Health, have accused the American College of Pediatricians (ACPeds) of misusing or mischaracterizing their work to advance ACPeds' political agenda.

Hmmm. Lots of reason to doubt the veracity of an article drafted by a hate group that more mainstream organizations have accused of mischaracterizing work to advance their agenda.

But let's look at the article as well.

Quote:

Human z3xuality is binary. You either have a normal Y chromosome, and develop into a male, or you don’t, and you will develop into a female.

Huh? Does that make any sense? First of all, chromosomes may determine physical gender, but certainly not "z3xuality." And she's even wrong as to gender being binary. There are people who are biologically interz3xed, for example. You'd think a pediatrician would know that. So without going beyond the first paragraph, we know that this article displays a shocking lack of scientific accuracy.

Moving on.

Quote:

But if I walk into that doctor’s office and say, “I am a man, sign me up for a double mastectomy,” my physician will.

Really? In what country? In the US, hormone replacement therapy (which will always occur before surgery) requires a referral letter from a psychologist stating that the patient was diagnosed with Gender Dysphoria, as well as blood work that needs to not show any irregularities that could be worsened though HRT. Surgery requires a referral letter from teh physician overseeing the HRT, stating that the patient has been receiving hormones for at least 6 months, a referral letter from a therapist stating that the patient is aware of the risks of the surgeries, that s/he has access to therapy after the procedure(s), and that s/he is indeed transgender (or as the source I used states, "aka it’s not a thing you just realized in the last 2 months").

So this author is playing fast and loose with actual facts.

And then she goes on to claim that any boy who plays with dolls would be told he is transgendered. Which, of course, is the biggest lie of all. The child she's talking about never says that he feels like he's a girl. Even in her little fairy tale. And no one believes that boys who play with dolls, or girls who play with trucks, have gender dysphoria. No one except this "doctor" of course. Or others who try to twist and turn facts until they have no meaning.

No studies. No statistical analyses. Nothing.

Who reads this drivel?

33055

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 11:39 am

SixOfWands wrote:

Quote:

Human z3xuality is binary. You either have a normal Y chromosome, and develop into a male, or you don’t, and you will develop into a female.

Quote:

But if I walk into that doctor’s office and say, “I am a man, sign me up for a double mastectomy,” my physician will.

There's plenty of articles on gender assignment reversals.

http://www.newsweek.com/transg.....76777

Any publication that shows the current thinking is a crock is just dismissed as being published by haters. There is a legit concern about moving too fast and not reducing the suicide rates of transvestites. Perhaps those that are suicidal/ unbalanced to begin with are attracted to this outlook rather than the other way around.

southernbubby

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 12:30 pm

amother wrote:

I’m not inclined to get my medical information from this article either - my point of bringing forward the thesis of the article is to question why it was posted here in the first place.

so that you could anonymously attack it? Twisted Evil

southernbubby

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 12:31 pm

simcha2 wrote:

I think taking your medical information from a publication fully funded by the heritage foundation may not be the most intellectually informative way. If you want to read medical opinion better to read the Science, Nature, the BMJ or another reputable peer reviewed journal.

The article posted is simply opinion and mans nothing in the world truth. It just plays to the echo chamber.

It is one opinion but if you are going to listen to the other opinion, why not listen to this one too?

southernbubby

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 12:33 pm

amother wrote:

Canadian government? One province. Ontario - and thats an exaggeration.

I should have stipulated Ontario and possibly no children have actually been removed from custody over this issue.

amother

Purple

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 12:41 pm

southernbubby wrote:

so that you could anonymously attack it? Twisted Evil

I didn’t attack the article. I just questioned, given it’s thesis, why it was posted. What viewpoint on ima were you trying to counter? Has anyone here posted - ‘my dd came home from gan and was sad that the teacher wouldn’t let her be the Shabbos abba/tatty - I wish my school wouldn’t be so machmir on gender).

33055

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 12:44 pm

southernbubby wrote:

I should have stipulated Ontario and possibly no children have actually been removed from custody over this issue.

The potential exists according to Michael Coteau, Ontario's Minister of Children and Youth Services who said earlier this year that it could be considered abuse "when a child identifies one way and a caregiver is saying no," according to QP Briefing.

While "Coteau appears to have been talking specifically about children in foster care", and he said " 'denying a child's gender identity would be akin to "a child in care being told not to believe in Yoshke Christ.' "

amother

Purple

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 1:18 pm

Squishy wrote:

And here is what you didn’t copy and paste

"”Bill 89 does not give the government power to seize children from families based on a parent that disagrees with a child’s gender identification. Any suggestion of the sort is false," Alicia Ali, a spokesperson for Michael Coteau, Ontario's Minister of Children and Youth Services, told BuzzFeed News in an email.“

southernbubby

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 1:23 pm

amother wrote:

Sorry, I thought it was simply another anonymous attack which is one of the major annoyances of this site. I guess that I believe that if I use my screen name to give an opinion or share an article, than commentators should extend that courtesy to me.

There was the topic of transgenders up on imamother yesterday so when I saw this article in my emails, I decided to share it.

southernbubby

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 1:33 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Quote:

Human z3xuality is binary. You either have a normal Y chromosome, and develop into a male, or you don’t, and you will develop into a female.

Quote:

But if I walk into that doctor’s office and say, “I am a man, sign me up for a double mastectomy,” my physician will.

She did say that identical twins would both be transgender if it were hardwired into the brain, leaving the listener to imagine that there was a case where one twin was transgender and the other was not.

Politically conservative physicians may also feel that they should take a medically conservative approach. To me, removing a person's reproductive organs or giving them potentially harmful hormones, when a less invasive approach to help them accept their birth gender could be successful, would be a medically conservative as well as politically conservative approach.

She was not talking about birth defects of the reproductive system that produce ambiguous genitalia; she was talking about phenotypical males and females who are born fully one physical gender or another.

While we can't say that true transgenders don't exist, no one can answer why there seem to be lots more of them today. When I went to public school as a kid, it just didn't happen.

What would be wrong with doctors first trying to help a child accept his biological gender, except that it is not the politically popular thing to do now?

The 2 transgenders that I know personally are now media darlings on Facebook because they are society's victims and doctors who advocate for therapy to help avoid all of these surgeries and hormones are now branded as haters!

33055

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 1:45 pm

amother wrote:

Yes, anonymous person. That came later after her bose's email.

You also didn't state that it is a consideration when there is a pattern. What happens if they refuse to call their daughter he? Or it goes against their religious beliefs to allow their son to wear makeup asks skirts? I can't read the whole article because it is by paid subscription.

We rip children apart from their families for the stupidist reasons, so giving the right to do so doesn't guarantee it won't happen.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/w.....54602
Don't think some misguided judge won't take a kid away because the parent doesn't support gender appropriation. It is only a matter of time.

amother

Purple

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 1:54 pm

southernbubby wrote:

There is now evidence that biochemically s-x and gender don’t always match up. If you are a person for which this is a reality, all therapy will do is help with coping.

33055

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 1:57 pm

southernbubby wrote:

That's exactly what I see also. I don't know if we would be celebrating Chelsea Manning, the traitor, if he did not present as a woman.

Chelsea Manning is not a woman. I don't know the definition of a woman anymore, but this isn't a woman. There are either 2 genders or 63 depending on who you ask.

If I met a man who presented as a woman, I would be polite and respectful. I wouldn't want to hurt them, but understanding this is difficult.

southernbubby

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 1:58 pm

amother wrote:

There is now evidence that biochemically s-x and gender don’t always match up. If you are a person for which this is a reality, all therapy will do is help with coping.

Why should learning how to cope be plan B? What if, for example, the person who wants to change genders is not a small child but already an adult with a spouse and children whose lives would be altered by this change? What is wrong with learning to cope rather than put the whole family through a major upheaval?

amother

Purple

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 2:06 pm

Squishy wrote:

I’m not playing a what if game with you.

The American reporting over the law change (at the time bill) in Ontario was overblown. That’s it. Without understanding of the charter of rights and freedoms in Canada, it’s really difficult to comment on any of the changes.

southernbubby

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 2:08 pm

Squishy wrote:

It's more than that, Squishy. One of the 2 transgenders that I know personally was counseled by a therapist to say that she wanted to be a boy. She was, and still is, a teenager. The child was suicidal and the parents were exhausted by night vigils, but they had also been big LBGT advocates and marched in the pride parades. Somehow, this problem child became an overnight hero by transitioning medically and because the child is now very flat-chested, probably surgically, and now has become the victim that the liberal mom is fighting for. She published an article somewhere that got some comments that the mother was milking this transition for all it was worth. People who read her article online called her out on it and saw through it but her liberal friends and relatives believe her to be the heroic mother who advocates for her child. Would she be such a superhero media mother if she had gotten her child therapy to cope with gender dysphoria rather than transitioning?

So yes, Squishy, we are polite, respectful and HORRIFIED

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