Should I tell 3 yr old son what his p---s is called?

heidi

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 12:58 pm

amother wrote:

First of all, this is not a frum thing. Pretty much the entire world has been using euphemisms for genitals up until relatively recently.

I would happily teach my children the correct anatomical words for genitals, because I want them to have information. But using those words in speech referring specifically to my child’s genitals seems intrusive.

We hint and euphemize and cover things that are special, not shameful.

I hope the message my children pick up from me, as with tzniyus, is one of utmost respect for them and their bodies.

Huh? A p3nis is no more special than a nose or a back. All these euphemisms just serve to underscore the message to the child that there is something bad or shameful about his p3nis.
And just for the record, eiver is short for איבר מין-- zexual organ. You really can't get more specific than that.

amother

Olive

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 1:14 pm

heidi wrote:

But it's not the same, or we'd be walking around with our noses all covered up. Or stark naked, like animals.

What we cover, are our zxual organs, and what's in proximity. There should be no shame attached, just respect.

There are probably a dozen other euphemistic hebrew and gemara words, as well. (How does "min" = zxual?)

marina

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 2:13 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

So according to you, if everyone would only use the correct anatomical names for all body parts including p*nis and v*gina, s*xual dysfunction in orthodox jewish communities would be eradicated...

Wouldn't you wish it were that easy?

That's not what I said even a little bit.

But insisting that it is against God's will to use anatomically correct names for body parts is not a good sign for open conversation and a healthy attitude.

It's like I said: No wonder some people from this town can't bake cake- they won't even say the word F-L-O-U-R. And you said: SOOOOOO according to you, all they have to do to bake cake is pronounce the word FLOUR and they would automatically be fantastic bakers!!!

No, that is not actually what I said.

heidi

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 2:17 pm

amother wrote:

מין means zex in Hebrew.
Sorry, but your logic is faulty. Are elbows zexual? Or knees? Or bellies (mine sure as heck isn't)-- parts of our body are covered bcz. they are private. Not dirty or wrong. And they are still called by their proper names.

amother

Orchid

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 2:28 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

So, I'll ask the question again - in your opinion, if we start using the correct terms for p*nis, specifically, then this will solve all these s*xual problems you have stated? I'm genuinely curious if you think this would solve these problems.

amother

Olive

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 2:54 pm

heidi wrote:

Private, yes. Not dirty or wrong, correct. That's what I said, twice.

It doesn't matter if bellies--not a real word either--are zxual; they are generally covered with clothing due to proximity to zxual organs.

As I wrote, I want my children to feel respected by me, and to cultivate their own self-respect for themselves and their bodies.

So we both have the same goal, yes?

Seas

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 3:05 pm

Momnyg8 and amother are right. We go by what we were taught by Chazal and all the seforim of our mesorah, and they all use euphemisms.

As an aside, the Rambam explains that Loshon Hakodesh is thusly called (the 'holy' tongue), because it doesn't have specific words for private parts or intimacy. Just the words ervah which is a general term for a covered part, and intimacy is called 'sleeping with'.

There are other Rishonim who disagree with the premise that that is the reason for the name, but not with the concept that refraining from being specific in areas of tznius is in fact part of being holy.

RebekahsMom

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 5:08 pm

amother wrote:

Actually, the word belly is 200 yrs older than private, and 400 yrs older than s-xual.

amother

Denim

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 11:18 pm

amother wrote:

I don't think that it is standard in Lakewood to use the word peni$.

I don't see what's wrong with calling it front tushy

Other than the fact that a tushy has 2 halves and a long crack up the middle, which looks nothing like the male part? I can see that for girls, but even then, it’s ridiculous.

amother

Denim

Mon, Dec 11 2017, 11:40 pm

amother wrote:

heidi wrote:

Sorry, but your logic is faulty. Are elbows zexual? Or knees? Or bellies (mine sure as heck isn't)-- parts of our body are covered bcz. they are private. Not dirty or wrong. And they are still called by their proper names.

As someone pointed out earlier (another thread?) everything has become so taboo lately that we are afraid to explain anything to our children. Every culture covers their genitals. Many women in Africa/ South America do not cover their brea$ts. The men don’t look twice (and if you’ve ever seen a photo in National Geographic, I promise they’re not attractive).

I understand covering the head/ genitals/ knees (since a skirt short enough to show knees can show more when you’re sitting wrong). But elbows are less of a turn-on than hands will ever be.

RebekahsMom

Tue, Dec 12 2017, 12:14 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

My earlier comments were more joking/ sarcastic, but I finally found a good (in my mind) comparison. Think of genitals like fire. There are so many people saying “fire is dangerous! We can’t expose our kids to fire! They might make a wrong decision. They might get hurt!”

And suddenly, you have a bunch of curious boys either experimenting with a matchbox (causing widespread damage), or being afraid to face a fire because they’ve never learned that fire is simultaneously life and death, beauty and danger. In the right situation, with proper knowledge, fire is necessary for survival and it’s wonderful.

My son knew by age 9-10 how to light a fire (a true flame, not body reference) only AFTER making sure all conditions are right (wind, proper setting, protection and ability to extinguish), and to never let it get past his control. It is NEVER something to play with, or show to friends. He gets that fire is not to be treated lightly. But the first step to all of this was to teach him about fire in a way that shows respect but not fear.

And I honestly feel that if you replace the word fire with the word (genitals), the comparison will hold just as well.

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Dec 12 2017, 7:41 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

Sure, and when your kid is expelled for using dirty words... you'll send him to marina's school.

Im sorry but any institution that finds the word pen1s to be a dirty word, something is very very very wrong. Our body parts are NOT dirty words. And please dont ever make your child think that they are.

Also, you wrote, in a different reply, that you only tell your child at 6 or 7 whats what. Im going to venture to say that they probably learn, from other kids, before that, whats what.

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Dec 12 2017, 7:46 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

Ok, I would like someone to call their local Orthodox Rabbi and ask if you are allowed to use the words p*nis or v*gina when explaining body parts to your child.

And yes, I am THAT shocked at this reply. Mommyg8, one does not have to ask their rabbanim EVERYTHING. I think this is going waaaaaaaaaay over the edge with asking questions to a rabbi. Some things you have to a.use common sense and b. decide as a human being, a mother etc.

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Dec 12 2017, 7:47 am

amother wrote:

For what reason doea a child (till marriage) refer to their private part with the actual name? What's wrong with referring to it as private part?

Ill ask this question the other way around, why does a toddler have to use a euphamism? Why not just call it what it is?