My theory about transgender issues in this generation

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FranticFrummie

Wed, Dec 13 2017, 5:51 pm

We wouldn't say that there were no people with Autism 200 years ago, because it's only been recently that there have been scientifically backed diagnoses for Spectrum conditions. Of course there were Autists back then! They were just stuck in mental institutions. I'm sure none of us want to go back to those times.

People have been interzex and trans for centuries, in pretty much every culture you'd care to study. The only difference now, in Western culture, is that there is the ability to actually do something physically for these people. Combined with the legal rights that non binary/non conforming people have achieved, that makes it LOOK like it's a popular thing to do. The fact is, treatment protocols just weren't available until very recently, so it's making news.

BTW, not all trans people transition "all the way". Up to 50% decline any surgery at all, and are quite happy to just use hormones. Some will only have "top surgery", but leave the genitals alone. At every step of the way, they have therapists who work with them and guide them. The last thing doctors want is to have patient failure, so they insist that all patients have regular monitoring for mental health issues.

Nobody is just lopping off body parts on a whim. Go to your doctor and tell them you want a zex change. If they schedule you for next Tuesday, I'll eat my tichel!

southernbubby

Wed, Dec 13 2017, 6:03 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

Autism appears to be on the rise, partly because of better diagnosis, partly because of lower infant and child mortality, but also partly because whatever the physical cause is, is more prevalent in the environment than it once was.

There are also psychological mechanisms at play with transgenders, or for that matter any number of disorders, afflictions, aberrations, differences, etc., which may have nothing at all to do with a predisposition that was present from birth. Can we totally and clearly say that it is never a way to get attention or a way to express anger at the family or society? Autism is almost always present in early childhood but some transgenders live as their birth gender well into adulthood and marry and have children before they declare their birth gender a mistake that there is now a way to rectify.

Fox

Wed, Dec 13 2017, 7:43 pm

DrMom wrote:

This is a common occurrence? Gay men get surgery to turn into gay women? How does getting surgery on your body make you suddenly attracted to women?

I am confused...

I don't know the actual statistics; I gather it's not a significant proportion -- but enough to be noticed as a phenomenon.

As FF said, presenting as the opposite gender doesn't in theory change your orientation. But apparently for a minority of people, transitioning and relating to the world differently changes their s-xual attraction or at least causes them to explore other possibilities.

Since we don't really understand the science behind any of this, we don't really know what goes on. It's just kind of funny to think about . . .

SpottedBanana

Thu, Dec 14 2017, 12:21 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

If they schedule you for next Tuesday, I'll eat my tichel!

FF, I happen to disagree with your attitude toward this issue, but I do love your jokes!

southernbubby

Thu, Dec 14 2017, 8:43 am

I would also say that transgender and interzex is not the same. An interzex person has a physical abnormality where they have some male and some female gonadal tissue in their bodies. A transgender is physically normal but mentally and emotionally cannot make peace with the gender that they were assigned with at conception.

It may well be that in some cultures, male and female roles in society are less spelled out and that each gender is allowed to take freely those roles or forms of dress that is generally assigned to the other gender. If that is the case, there is no direct advantage or difference of one gender over the other and it is all basically the same. It would be interesting to study if there are such cultures, how often individuals come to hate their genders.

In children who are determined to be the opposite gender, it obviously happens at an age where they are able to realize that there are two genders and they are the "wrong" one. They are able to realize that the gender role assigned to the other gender appeals to them more than the role assigned to their gender.

In Judaism, there are clear gender roles, obvious from the day that we come to a bris and bless the boy with Torah, chuppah, and good deeds, or make a kiddish for a girl. Then each gender has it's mode of dress and laws and customs concerning each gender.

In a progressive general society, however, these differences are possibly easier to obliterate but our society is not that progressive. When we shop, we expect that there is a men's department and a women's department and very few clothing shops offer unigender clothing that doesn't fit either gender all that well.

Toys and books are marketed toward specific genders, and most boys won't be interested in a Barbie and so forth and girls in our society seem drawn toward anything pink and pastel, possibly because they are given that from day one.

There is no reason whatsoever, however, that bikes have to be a boys bike or a girls bike. These were made that way to accommodate skirts, back in the day when women didn't wear pants. A boy is safer on a girl's bike.

That said, it is currently impossible to know if there are actual brain differences between transgender children and other children or it if is really that the child can't fit into society the way that we expect him or her to.

FranticFrummie

Thu, Dec 14 2017, 6:21 pm

Which restroom would you let this little girl use?

mommy3b2c

Thu, Dec 14 2017, 7:14 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

Which restroom would you let this little girl use?

It’s not a girl. It’s a boy with long hair, that calls himself Rebecca and wears dresses. But I don’t care which restroom he uses. He’s a little kid. There is no such thing as a transgender child. If I feel bad for the poor thing. The parents needed attention so badly, they turned their child into a pawn to fulfill their needs.

southernbubby

Thu, Dec 14 2017, 9:42 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

Kind of makes you wonder if they would be disappointed if he returned to being a boy.

amother

Powderblue

Thu, Dec 14 2017, 10:09 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

Which restroom would you let this little girl use?

"I felt I was a girl because I liked the color pink, girls clothes and how they wore their hair." Wow, earth shattering. Let's give this 8 year old chemicals to stop him from maturing into a man because he likes girl stuff.
Poor kid. Suffering from depression and suicidal mental illness and then he decides being a girl will solve all his problems.

flowerpower

Thu, Dec 14 2017, 11:08 pm

I keep seeing how kids even as young as 3 are becoming "trans" and I don't get. How sick must the parents be? Seriously. Why would that even be an option anywAys? My son fell asleep with a doll today and he walked around in princess high heels. So do I look for signs now? Ask him if he wants to be called Jenny?

amother

Forestgreen

Thu, Dec 14 2017, 11:23 pm

amother wrote:

So far so good.

amother

Forestgreen

Thu, Dec 14 2017, 11:24 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

It?

SpottedBanana

Fri, Dec 15 2017, 10:11 am

amother wrote:

It?

I'm confused -- in English, when one says "it's a girl," that does not mean the one being referred to is an "it." mommy3b2c clearly referred to this child as a "he."

Mommyg8

Fri, Dec 15 2017, 10:21 am

amother wrote:

I'm with you on this. Two of my sons like pink (I think its actually IN now, actually) and almost all my sons played with dolls. Oh, my.

And I'm sure there are plenty of girls who like to play with trucks, like to build, etc.

Just because someone doesn't fit their gender stereotype, does that mean they're not the right gender? That is just so ridiculous, on so many levels...

And why would someone get depressed because he likes pink and likes to play with dolls? I'm so confused.

mommy3b2c

Fri, Dec 15 2017, 12:43 pm

SpottedBanana wrote:

I'm confused -- in English, when one says "it's a girl," that does not mean the one being referred to is an "it." mommy3b2c clearly referred to this child as a "he."

I was just about to write this but thanks.

amother

Forestgreen

Fri, Dec 15 2017, 12:47 pm

SpottedBanana wrote:

I'm confused -- in English, when one says "it's a girl," that does not mean the one being referred to is an "it." mommy3b2c clearly referred to this child as a "he."

we stop referring to humans as "its" after the initial "its a boy" "its a girl" in the hospital announcement.

the rest of the post angered me so much, but I couldn't get past the beginning. Resolving not to open this thread again.

SpottedBanana

Fri, Dec 15 2017, 12:55 pm

amother wrote:

Really? You've never said "it's me"?

mommy3b2c

Fri, Dec 15 2017, 2:22 pm

amother wrote:

Really? You’ve never looked into a baby carriage and said “you’re baby is adorable! Is it a girl or a boy?”

And I’m sure your opinion on the issue would anger me just as much as my opinion angered you. At least write with your screen name. Stand up for what you believe in. And if you believe that a child can be transgender. You’re acting like a fool. And that’s my opinion. Said under my screen name.

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