Relative in jail | Imamother

amother

Azure

Sun, Dec 24 2017, 11:14 pm

amother wrote:

Sorry, but while I feel bad for YOUR pain at having a close relative in jail, I cannot daven for his release. After what he subjected my DH to (I can elaborate if necessary), I cannot feel any compassion for your relative.

I don't care to know the facts, The facts won't help us in any way, please no Loshon Hora here.
While I sympathize with you on your hardship on what your DH went through, There's always two sides to a story.
And that doesn't give you the right to speak negatively about OPs relative.
I'm sure you don't want Hashem to judge you. You dont want to daven on his behalf, don't. But keep it to yourself and don't be rude.

imasoftov

Mon, Dec 25 2017, 3:40 am

Squishy wrote:

You have been really hostile to her. I found several of your answers just mean on this thread. This is her relative she LOVES not some theoretical person.

I feel bad for OP and her relative. I will doven without her having to answer any questions because she is a Yid and she asked.

She didn't say she loves him. Maybe she's just embarrassed while he's in jail. But had I wanted to be mean I would have assumed he had done something terrible instead of asking what he had done or been accused of.

keym

Mon, Dec 25 2017, 8:17 am

Everyone who is saying that we daven for yidden to be released from jail and we dont need to know what he did, what if tomorrow someone posted asking for tefillos for Webberman telling us that hewas just trying to help teach poor girls and there was tremendous libels and misunderstandings.
Im not equating the two. Im wondering where the line is drawn. Every yid in jail (hopefully) has family who loves him.
Is it because this man tried to help agunos?
Im trying to understand.

amother

Taupe

Mon, Dec 25 2017, 8:21 am

keym wrote:

I think the reason why he is in jail is because he tried to help agunos.

imasoftov

Tue, Dec 26 2017, 5:30 am

amother wrote:

We do know - you don't go to jail for social pressure.

What if the meagen (the man keeping the woman an aguna) got a restraining order and the activist violated it? Or the activist was found in contempt for violating some other court order. Could have trespassed to hang a sign. Or maybe the meagen swung first but only the second punch was seen by witnesses.

ETA: I see that you know who the OP is talking about, I don't, so all of my comments are about a hypothetical situation.

shirachadasha

Tue, Dec 26 2017, 6:05 am

For those of you who insist on knowing the details of of the purported crime, is it reasonable to think that you can really get enough information in a post to determine if he is worthy of rachamay shomayim?
Instead of insisting on details from op, ask Hashem that the punishment should not be one iota worse than what is appropriate for the crime committed (if any).

amother

Azure

Tue, Dec 26 2017, 10:39 pm

How about, when someone asks you to pray for Refuah Sheleima, first find out the details and if the ill person is worthy of having a Recovery... or a shidduch or anything for that matter. To me it sounds like: Can you daven for my... for children? Hold on, depends, can they manage caring for children...
What difference does it make to us if the person to pray for, is worthy of a release or not (according to your opinion)?

imasoftov

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 3:31 am

amother wrote:

A person who is sick or needs a shidduch or children hasn't given any indication that perhaps they'd be better off not recovering, getting married, or having children. If someone is already incarcerated, that's not proof that he belongs there, but it does give one (but perhaps not much more than one) pause.

amother

Mistyrose

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 3:43 am

imasoftov wrote:

I'm wondering - isn't that kind of like saying that you think that Man's justice in this world is somehow superior to G-d's justice?

Better perhaps to say that lots of times things just happen in this world that we cannot understand.

More hugs to you op

imasoftov

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 5:44 am

amother wrote:

I'm wondering - isn't that kind of like saying that you think that Man's justice in this world is somehow superior to G-d's justice?

I don't even know what it would mean to think that.

saw50st8

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 7:24 am

imasoftov wrote:

On your last point, I would listen to evidence that someone was falsely arrested, denied bail, or convicted, but I'd have to hear it first.

You can still pray for someone in jail. Unless he's a pedophile child molester, do you really think he deserves to get raped and beaten and abused in jail? You can daven for his safety even if he has done something wrong.

imasoftov

Wed, Dec 27 2017, 10:23 am

saw50st8 wrote:

Good point. I'll do that. Actually I'll pray for no one at all to be abused in any jail.

shiaeisen

Sun, Dec 31 2017, 11:11 am

I can say that he is not a danger to society, he helped me personally (or at least tried to) and he was following halacha when he committed his so called crimes. And even if he did do something wrong, you have to assume he did teshuva and there’s nothing wrong (but everything right!) with davening for another Jew. And no. He’s not a child molester or menace to society. Period.

imasoftov

Sun, Dec 31 2017, 11:49 am

Rochelle1 wrote:

If you view what he was arrested for as "so called crimes", perhaps he does as well. If a person thinks what he did was not a crime, there's no reason to assume he did teshuvah.

If, as people have suggested here, he has been involved in violence or threats of same to help agunot, it's not so clear that he is not a menace to society. Even if one believes that it is right and proper to do this (I do not), the group of people who were sentenced not long ago (and I have no idea if he's one of them or not) had agreed to "convince" a non-existent husband, which means that they could have just as easily been sent to (insert something from the mafia euphemisms thread) a real but innocent person.

amother

Fuchsia

Sun, Dec 31 2017, 11:59 am

imasoftov wrote:

Exactly. Thats what people are saying. He may have hurt innocent people. There are men who claim they were hurt undeservingly. And I personally know women who claim they were emotionally hurt by him. And some of his gittin may be considered not good because they werent given with free will. Its very grey complicated area. But do we just give such a man a pass because "he was trying to help women"? I dont know but I know its not so simple as people are making it seem...