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Simchas and Proportions
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amother
Yellow


 

Post Tue, Jan 16 2018, 4:36 pm
I come from a very large family and I live in a different country to all of them. Some live a short plane ride or long drive away, others a much greater distance. Very few of us live in the same country as each other. I try and make it for the closer by simchos, with my family mostly, but on my own if too expensive.

I did miss one siblings wedding, it was 3 weeks after I gave birth, and a very very long, expensive flight. I had no money and didn't want to fly on my own with a newborn. (in retrospect health wise it was probably not the best idea to take such a tiny baby on such a long plane ride but I was very upset to miss it) But, it was that siblings choice to make the wedding then...they knew when making the date that it would be difficult or impossible for me to come.

I've noticed an interesting dynamic, that since my family is extremely easy going and will not hold grudges if people don't come to simchos, a lot of my siblings end up spending lots more money and time and energy going to the other sides simchas. For example, my sister takes her whole family to every single bar mitzva, wedding etc from her husbands side. But she has only ever come alone to my simchas, even though I live a lot closer.
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 16 2018, 4:59 pm
Bnei Berak 10 wrote:
OP here: It's much more difficult to keep up with large numbers of simchas. My SIL for example marrying off before Purim. They need a very large hall. We have already declined Shabbos 7 brachot because it's such a large event. Only parents from both sides + g/parents + spouses of married children (not including babies or g/children and also not SIL's 2 siblings and her nieces/nephews or uncles/aunts from the grooms side, well the very closest family adds up to 46 ppl. We are talking numbers here! And with XL-families come a lot of simchas. At a point it is becoming difficult to attend everything.


But you. Can’t compare shabbos sheva brachos to a wedding. And it also depends who’s shabbos sheva brachos.
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amother
Orchid


 

Post Tue, Jan 16 2018, 5:13 pm
A simcha in my opinion is lovely, but can still be stressful. One of my siblings is getting married out of state. I have eleventy seven children to dress for this wedding at my own expense. I need a maternity gown and nowhere to get one without spending a fortune. We have travel expenses to get to the wedding, and I have no way of knowing if we are being put up when we get there or I have to find somewhere to stay. Once we get there, I will likely spend the entire wedding watching my children so they don’t destroy the hall. Naturally my sibling doesn’t even think these things are anything to worry about, because there are a million more important things to worry about for the wedding. I know it’s the happiest day of the chosson and kallah’s lives, but I can’t wait until it’s over and can safely say everything worked out. Honestly, I’m so excited for my sibling and I think the couple is adorable. When I’m not tearing my hair out, I can’t wait for the wedding- but I’m so stressed out and there’s no one to help me.
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allcuteonesrtak




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 16 2018, 5:25 pm
SuperWify wrote:
I have missed 2 cousins weddings both times because they were during bein hazmanim and we were away.
I did however, make sure to attend a sheva brachos and give a nice gift. (And felt super bad).

A siblings simcha (in normal circumstances) should not be missed! (Unless they habe caused you pain etc or you had a baby the night before) I’m sure your parents would be happy to pay for a babysitter / flight etc.

The only people I knew who missed a siblings wedding:
1. My great uncle A”H- he was learning in EY and his parents told him if he wants to go learn he can, but they will not fly him in for his sisters (my grandma) wedding. And they didn’t. (Different Times then...)
2. A friend- she was in labor


Why are you so sure?
Where does this sense of entitlement come from?!
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amother
Orchid


 

Post Tue, Jan 16 2018, 5:35 pm
unexpected wrote:
I think EY is different because the amount of a ticket is truly not affordable for everyone. However when parents are making a simcha they should make every effort to help their struggling children so they can come to the simcha respectably. It really bothers me when a mother spends close to 2000 on a gown because she "doesn't have a choice" and then doesn't help out her child who really can't afford even the 25$ gowns from the gemach. Or when the ba'al simcha has certain expectations about what her grandchildren/children will wear and yet doesn't offer to help out


I have quite a few gowns to get plus shoes, and we live out of state from the wedding. No one will be helping me with anything. My parents can’t/won’t help and I can’t expect the C&K to do it. And yes there are opinions on what the gowns should look like.
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amother
Plum


 

Post Tue, Jan 16 2018, 5:56 pm
I come from a large family and large extended family. Dh comes from a large family and med extended family.
Sibling weddings,- sibling goes. Rest of family if we can afford it or someone pays.
Nephews bar mitzva- we try to send someone to represent.
Cousins weddings- within 3 hr drive we will go within reason. More than 3 hr drive only if someone wants to sponsor.
Brissim etc- if they are in our city one ofus will try to show up to wish mazal tov.

But I have a perspective that at the end of the day family will be there when no one else will be. In my family, we have had the necessity of transplants and family was needed. I see it as doing for family as an investment cuz youll never know when youll need them.
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amother
Lilac


 

Post Tue, Jan 16 2018, 10:09 pm
I love going to wedding but dh hates so we don't go often, I live a few hrs away from family
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amother
Magenta


 

Post Tue, Jan 16 2018, 10:25 pm
I agree with you. For close family it makes sense for people to expect you to come but when it comes to coworkers cousins etc it can get tough especially when its a long drive away!
We have a cousins wedding coming up and dh has his good friends wedding the same night(2 hrs away from each other!!)...obviously we wld love to go to the friends wedding but if we skip the cousins wedding some relatives will be upset...
Still not sure what were gonna do.
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penguin




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 16 2018, 10:26 pm
Oh, but if nobody is offering to pay for your or your kids' gown, what right to they have to tell you what to get? Sorry if I don't get your family dynamic ; )
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unexpected




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 16 2018, 10:33 pm
amother wrote:
I have quite a few gowns to get plus shoes, and we live out of state from the wedding. No one will be helping me with anything. My parents can’t/won’t help and I can’t expect the C&K to do it. And yes there are opinions on what the gowns should look like.

And this doesn't bother you? Naturally, you will go along with the requirements and put a smile on your face bec u don't want to ruin things for the chosson and kallah but that doesn't make it right
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amother
Ivory


 

Post Wed, Jan 17 2018, 7:55 am
unexpected wrote:
And this doesn't bother you? Naturally, you will go along with the requirements and put a smile on your face bec u don't want to ruin things for the chosson and kallah but that doesn't make it right


I don't believe in color schemes for this reason, but sometimes there really is no one to blame. Think of this scenerio - the chassan and kallah come from slightly different financial brackets - the chassan from a large extended yeshiva/kollel family and the kallah from a smaller more well to do family. The kallah chooses a color scheme and her parents have no problem outfittng her side in said color. Obviousky, they have no obligation to help the other side with clothing The other side, however, is already struggling with affording their wedding expenses and simply can't offer to also dress the chassan's many married siblings and their children, especially not if the color scheme is somewhat less common and makes it more difficult to borrow or find at gemachs. The mother of the chassan may not demand or even care if her progeny don't match the color scheme, but her children and grandchildren do care. They don't want to come in whatever random colors they were able to borrow while the other side is all perfectly matching - and so they feel the pressure to dress much more expensively. There really is no one to blame in this situation... Unless maybe the whole concept of color schemes in general....
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 17 2018, 8:19 am
amother wrote:
I don't believe in color schemes for this reason, but sometimes there really is no one to blame. Think of this scenerio - the chassan and kallah come from slightly different financial brackets - the chassan from a large extended yeshiva/kollel family and the kallah from a smaller more well to do family. The kallah chooses a color scheme and her parents have no problem outfittng her side in said color. Obviousky, they have no obligation to help the other side with clothing The other side, however, is already struggling with affording their wedding expenses and simply can't offer to also dress the chassan's many married siblings and their children, especially not if the color scheme is somewhat less common and makes it more difficult to borrow or find at gemachs. The mother of the chassan may not demand or even care if her progeny don't match the color scheme, but her children and grandchildren do care. They don't want to come in whatever random colors they were able to borrow while the other side is all perfectly matching - and so they feel the pressure to dress much more expensively. There really is no one to blame in this situation... Unless maybe the whole concept of color schemes in general....

"God made everything out of nothing, but the nothingness shows through" - Paul Valery
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amother
Bisque


 

Post Wed, Jan 17 2018, 8:36 am
Color schemes for guests? Yes, stupid stupid idea.
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 17 2018, 8:42 am
amother wrote:
I don't believe in color schemes for this reason, but sometimes there really is no one to blame. Think of this scenerio - the chassan and kallah come from slightly different financial brackets - the chassan from a large extended yeshiva/kollel family and the kallah from a smaller more well to do family. The kallah chooses a color scheme and her parents have no problem outfittng her side in said color. Obviousky, they have no obligation to help the other side with clothing The other side, however, is already struggling with affording their wedding expenses and simply can't offer to also dress the chassan's many married siblings and their children, especially not if the color scheme is somewhat less common and makes it more difficult to borrow or find at gemachs. The mother of the chassan may not demand or even care if her progeny don't match the color scheme, but her children and grandchildren do care. They don't want to come in whatever random colors they were able to borrow while the other side is all perfectly matching - and so they feel the pressure to dress much more expensively. There really is no one to blame in this situation... Unless maybe the whole concept of color schemes in general....


The kallah, who should be more sensitive to her in laws financial situation?

If the kallah really wants all the little girls at her wedding to wear identical purple dresses, it is completely appropriate to pay for it herself. (or her parents pay)
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 17 2018, 11:09 am
That's why I like a general color theme, pastels, pinks, tulle skirts, etc.
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amother
Coral


 

Post Wed, Jan 17 2018, 12:37 pm
I didn't do a color scheme even though I think it looks nice because different people look good in different colors/shades of colors. I wanted everyone to like the dress they wear and be able to wear a dress they had or was easy for them to get if that was an option. I didn't want it to be headache for people. No my SIL did not offer to pay for our dresses when she got married with a color scheme nor did either set of parents. Does the chossan and kallah pay for people's dresses?
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amother
Orchid


 

Post Wed, Jan 17 2018, 1:00 pm
unexpected wrote:
And this doesn't bother you? Naturally, you will go along with the requirements and put a smile on your face bec u don't want to ruin things for the chosson and kallah but that doesn't make it right


It bothers me very much. I can’t even talk to my sibling about it. When I started hyperventilating about finding a gown, they made it clear it wasn’t their problem and that they didn’t want to talk about it. I’m not worrying about color requirements or even what they like, but I still have to spend more money than I have for this wedding. I work very hard for my money, but big families are expensive. Adding that this is right before Pesach, and I’m just an emotional mess. Even gas to drive will be more money than I would normally spend on extras. I’m considering making myself a mileage ticket and going myself, but since my kids have gemach dresses, it doesn’t seem that I will be saving myself much. I can’t win anyway, so I’m not even bothering anymore.
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amother
Violet


 

Post Wed, Jan 17 2018, 1:19 pm
I don't see why the other side can't all wear another color that either harmonizes or doesn't clash.

In our family the women wore whatever the found, usually some in navy or black and maybe some in cream. For a photo of all the sisters & sisters in law we either alternated them or did all the darks then all the lights.

All the kids wore something cute from a gemach and it had nothing to do with the color chosen by the other side.

The point being, when you do pictures of YOUR family, you all somehow coordinate (or not) and their side does their pictures. When do they ever come together? Maybe one shot of C&K with both sets of parents? Not even sure we did that.

But I guess in our circles "the color scheme" is not such a big deal.
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Bnei Berak 10




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 18 2018, 3:19 am
amother wrote:
It bothers me very much. I can’t even talk to my sibling about it. When I started hyperventilating about finding a gown, they made it clear it wasn’t their problem and that they didn’t want to talk about it. I’m not worrying about color requirements or even what they like, but I still have to spend more money than I have for this wedding. I work very hard for my money, but big families are expensive. Adding that this is right before Pesach, and I’m just an emotional mess. Even gas to drive will be more money than I would normally spend on extras. I’m considering making myself a mileage ticket and going myself, but since my kids have gemach dresses, it doesn’t seem that I will be saving myself much. I can’t win anyway, so I’m not even bothering anymore.


Wedding right before Pesach? Oh boy. At wits end
I don't envy you for a single moment.
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 23 2018, 3:12 pm
Making a chassunah is a little like being pregnant: you become an instant magnet for everyone's craziest, most insane story.

The only difference between crazy childbirth experiences and crazy chassunah experiences is that you're more likely to get an epidural during childbirth, though you may need it just as much if you're making a chassunah.

However, there is one theme that I discovered touches on a lot of the issues in the American frum veldt -- the outrageous costs; the endless opportunities for people to be offended; bridezilla-ish behavior that extends far beyond the actual kallah . . .

It seems that a great many of us have confused two entirely separate occasions, mistaking simchas for family reunions.

Here's how this played out in our own recent simcha: It seems that on the side of our mechuntanim, there were a group of siblings who hadn't been together for almost 20 years. Of course, they were eagerly awaiting this event, and their elderly parents were even more excited.

So far, so good.

Accommodating this reunion meant working at length to find a date that worked with everyone's travel plans (two of the siblings were coming from Israel), but it wasn't a big deal to us.

Then we discovered the phenomenon that is "Shabbos Sheva Brochos," where the kallah's family essentially hosts an only slightly smaller repeat of the chassunah. Long story short, the mechutanim informed us that they would like to invite 50-60 people! After all, everyone wanted to be part of this sibling reunion! And it would mean so much to the Bubbe!

Now, we happen to be blessed with reasonable, sane mechutanim, and the list was trimmed to a point where it was only a little crazy, but we were told by many of our friends, "Oh, yes, the Shabbos Sheva Brochos ended up costing a third of the cost of the chassunah!" And invariably, behind each of these tales, there was a Bubbe who would be devastated if the guest list were trimmed.

The same logic is behind the matching gowns. The photography is no longer for the benefit of the chosson and kallah -- it's when everyone gathers for family photos!

And, of course, if a branch of the family is missing for whatever reason, Bubbe is heartbroken and the terrorists have won.

Obviously, simchas are family events, and no one should deprive Bubbe of her nachas out of sheer spite or stubbornness. But it's also not so nice to try to throw a family reunion on somebody else's dime, and that's often the practical outcome when people try to turn a simcha into a family reunion.

I think this is where we need to borrow a page from the African-American community, where family reunions are big business. Plan a Shabbaton or a week-long Disney World adventure if you want; collect money all year long to subsidize the costs of people who can't afford to pay their own way; budget for matching t-shirts or whatever floats your boat; spend a whole day taking photos in every conceivable grouping.

Getting people to cut back on simchas is a tough sell. Nobody wants to make his/her children the korbonos for austerity. But turning chassunahs or bar mitzvahs into multi-day family reunions adds ridiculously to everyone's costs. It may be time to be honest with Bubbe and tell her that she's going to have to find cheaper ways to shep nachas.
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