Does your cleaning lady.....

mommy3b2c

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 8:09 pm

Squishy wrote:

Did you miss the part where I said it was laughable how quick we are to call someone a racist on this site? You are just spoiling for a fight with unexpected.

I don't know know her. After your first post looking for a fight, I speculated that maybe because of her skin color she had people react to her a certain way.

How did you get from that explanation to unexpected is calling mommy2b2c a racist based on mommy's skin color? Will you please stop calling people racists?

Ummmm...

That’s pretty much what unexpected said. Her words-“if you would see my skin color, then I could call you a racist”

What is that supposed to mean?

ra_mom

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 8:12 pm

Squishy wrote:

Based on how people have reacted to her she is lumping all people together and calling them all racists? That is hypocritical.

SpottedBanana

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 8:12 pm

'Kay. So much inaccuracy on this thread. The key to "is it racism" is "are people of one race being considered inferior because of their race."

It is racist to prefer hiring a Polish cleaning woman over a South American cleaning woman just because of their race. It is even more racist to say that all South American women are bad cleaners.

It is not racist to use percentages -- to say that a murder victim is more likely to have been murdered by a black male. This is simply statistics; many studies have been done. It is extremely racist, though, to say that black males murder more because they are dumber/brawnier/insert other negative adjectives. Instead, one might reason that they are poorer, less educated, etc. because of other factors. (or who knows? Maybe black people are less or more intelligent than white people. But until studies show that, and they won't because it's not a PC question, I have no reason to believe anything like this.)

If studies were done on South American women's cleaning abilities, one could say that *on average* they are better/worse cleaners than Polish women. But the "on average" is important, because without that it is a racist statement IMO. And without data (doesn't have to be published! But the population studied should be at least, oh I don't know, 100 women of each ethnicity), it's meaningless speculation.

33055

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 8:21 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

Ummmm...

That’s pretty much what unexpected said. Her words-“if you would see my skin color, then I could call you a racist”

What is that supposed to mean?

I don't know her, so I am only speculating. Anything I say isn't personal to you because I don't know you to be a racist.

Those with darker complexions have experienced painful racism. I am assuming unexpected is darker complexioned. In the frum community it can be completely ostracizing.

There are very few people who will completely accept persons of a different race in the community.

mommy3b2c

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 8:25 pm

SpottedBanana wrote:

I agree with you 100% said.

Had the posters said something along the lines of, “what ethnicity is the cleaner? I have found that my polish cleaners tend to do a more thorough job.” I would not have called out that as a racist, because the poster was just saying her opinion on her experience. (Even though some would call that racist.)
But the blanket statements that it’s a FACT that polish cleaners are the best, just sounds so ignorant and bigoted. It disgusts me how people talk about their cleaning lady’s like they are animals...

mommy3b2c

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 8:28 pm

Squishy wrote:

Well, I’m having a hard time understanding her comment, but I think she was trying to say that because (she assumes) I’m white, then I must be a racist. And that is a racist comment on her part.

Never assume anything about anyone based on the color of their skin. It’s not nice.

33055

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 8:33 pm

ra_mom wrote:

Based on how people have reacted to her she is lumping all people together and calling them all racists? That is hypocritical.

Why is it hypocritical?

I know a couple of black people in Monsey. One is a shul janitor. He's ok as long as he knows his place. He was asked to leave a big shul for not knowing his place.

One black young man is completely ostracized. His mom and step siblings are white. It is 100 % disgraceful how he is treated. He is starred at and whispered about to the point he doesn't leave his home. His mom is on here. She has written about him. I totally recognize the family. Racists ruined his life.

Another local black family was also ostracized. We knew the boy when he was little. It is no wonder he became a withdrawn mess.

A very dark complexion family was helped relocated to EY. The kids were never accepted.

I know a lovely black woman who converted at going age. She can't get a shidduch. No one is interested because of skin color.

Last person I know who is black is a ger in hiding. She and I both talk about the comments. She and her children would lose their place of her race came out.

It isn't hypocritical to acknowledge the truth.

33055

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 8:37 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

I don't think she meant that. It might be hard for me to accept that because I can't see you as a racist. You are more the type to call em as you see em.

I think she meant more how people reacted to her IRL.

unexpected

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 10:51 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

Ummmm...

That’s pretty much what unexpected said. Her words-“if you would see my skin color, then I could call you a racist”

What is that supposed to mean?

Ok sorry my comment made no sense. What I meant was this (I'll try to explain)
It seems that because I agreed that Polish cleaners clean better than latinos you think that I am a racist. This implies that I am making a judgement based on skin color.
Now, if we were having this conversation face to face and you were calling me a racist because of observations I drew from personal experience, and I felt you were twisting my words around to fit your agenda, technically I could say the same to you: that you are judging me based on the color of my skin. Not because my skin color has anything to do with your argument. But because I can play the race card. Which you seem to enjoy doing very much

mommy3b2c

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 11:09 pm

unexpected wrote:

1) I honestly still am not sure what you’re talking about
2) saying poles clean better then Latinos is not racism based on skin color, it’s racism based on nationality.
3) I don’t know why you keep on bringing up skin color
2) I have no agenda
3) you can say whatever you want about me. But you have absolutely nothing to back up what you’re saying, so it wouldn’t make any sense.

So for example, you can tell me I’m a racist. But since I didn’t make any racist comments. (And I never do for that matter, because racist comments piss me off) it just would make you seem a bit like your just talking nonsense.

MiracleMama

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 11:46 pm

amother wrote:

If you want your house to be clean you need to hire a polish cleaning lady. The S American women do a very good job making things look neat and polished, but they are not cleaning for the most part

Nonsense. I've had amazing housekeepers from Venezuela, Columbia, Guatemala and Cuba. Also had a few polish ladies in our house when I was growing up. Some were good. Some were terrible. There is no single nationality that breeds excellent or awful cleaners.

OP, I would be disappointed to. But it's not fair to hold it against her that she isn't meeting your expectations when you haven't made them clear. Explain to her what you want (and a checklist can be helpful here) and give her a chance to deliver for you.

unexpected

Thu, Jan 18 2018, 11:52 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

1) saying poles clean better than Latinos is not racism, it is opinion based on personal observation. Not because I have anything against Latinos (my current cleaning lady is Latino and I am quite satisfied with her) but because I have hired quite a few from both nationalities and seen a clear difference.
2) I brought up skin color once and then went back to clarify because it was a poorly thought out statement
3) It seems to me that you are looking to call people racists even though nobody has said anything inherently negative about any race on this thread. That is an agenda
4) I can say that you are judgemental, because you have judged me and called me racist
5) You say that racist comments piss you off but it sounds to me that you really want to say "comments that piss me off must be racist"

mommy3b2c

Fri, Jan 19 2018, 7:13 am

unexpected wrote:

1) you can say I’m judgemental, but that’s not what you said. You said you can call me a racist.
2) the manner in which this whole polish/Latina debate started sounds extremely racist. There is a way to say things without sounding bigoted. But that way was not used on this thread.
3) I have no agenda. In fact, on other threads I have called people out on using the term “racist” when it wasn’t warranted. All I care about is honesty.
4) see spotted bananas post. She explained it a lot better then me.
5) I have repeated numerous times- if the poster had said something like “in my experience poles clean better then latinas” that would not sound bigoted. The nonchalant “ get a polish cleaning lady, latinas can’t clean. And the continued,” but she’ll have a personality.” Those are stereotypes. And stereotyping sounds extremely bigoted, small minded, and quite ignorant.

unexpected

Fri, Jan 19 2018, 8:26 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

I don't agree with Spotted Banana's post on racism. I can prefer whoever I want based on my own experience or research. Racism is when you believe another race is inherently inferior to your race and there is no exception because it is precisely their race that makes them inferior. I.e. to say Latinos are low class, dirty, conniving etc - and every single one of them is this way because they were born in South America to SA parents, and there is no getting away from the circumstances of their birth.
Stereotyping based on your own anecdotal experience may be small minded and ignorant but it is not racism, nor is it bigoted. And if it works for me, I can choose to live that way. My mother has never had a cleaning lady in her life because she is convinced they are all stealers. This is based on stories she heard as a girl and she refuses to take a risk. Is it stereotyping? Yes but it works for her. Why should you care if that's how she bases her decisions? (And if all cleaning woman were a certain nationality- would that make her racist?)

mommy3b2c

Fri, Jan 19 2018, 8:29 am

unexpected wrote:

You keep repeating that you can make your decision on which cleaning lady to choose based on their race because of your experience and I keep on agreeing with you. So it’s really pointless to keep repeating it.

amother

Mint

Fri, Jan 19 2018, 8:37 am

I have had the same cleaning lady for the past 15 years. She's from the Dominican Republic, if that matters to anyone. Initially I had to show her how I wanted certain things done, but I did notice that in general she had a very good idea of how things should be cleaned. It didn't surprise me to discover later on that her house is immaculately kept as well.
Now I don't give her any instructions unless I need something unusual, because she cleans my house as though it were hers -- one week she'll move all the living room furniture, another she'll wipe down all the baseboards, etc. She is extremely honest and very pleasant.

In general, if you find that someone you've hired is receptive to your early instructions and picks up on how to do things properly within a couple of visits, you're good. If not, or if they seem resentful, you'd better keep looking, because either they have no idea how to clean properly, or they're going to give you attitude. That's very unpleasant when you're paying for a service.

yo'ma

Fri, Jan 19 2018, 1:58 pm

carrot wrote:

What am I missing? Why were you rolling your eyes?

Also while I'm posting, I'm wondering what you mean by major furniture. Like move the dressers every week or two? The fridge? (I think you'd need two people to do that?)

Second question first, like couches and beds.

I was rolling my eyes because she was so happy that she thought of cleaning the chairs when I already told her to. Like I said I didn't say anything though.