Where have we/I gone right?

Ruchel

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 2:32 pm

amother wrote:

tamiri I have to disagree with most things you say, I wouldnt consider this decision living a lie, because teenagers are not mature enough to make this lifelong decision.

I agree.
Once I wanted to leave high school and be an actress LOL

You could be sure I am glad my parents forced me to go on with hs and now I'm happily going for a master. Teens are totally immature and rebellious.

I stand by my first post.

Tamiri

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 2:37 pm

Ruchel, forcing a kid to continue his education (in your case) and forcing him to continue a CHASSIDISHE (or any other religious) education are two diff things. The boy here is not looking to leave school, he's looking to leave a way of life!!!
To the amother who thinks a teen is not mature enough to make life decisions: so then, what are they rewarding him for? Making a decision that makes the parents happy, for as long as it takes to get the prize???? Does the prize have strings attached: can they take back driving lessons if the kid slips????

DefyGravity

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 2:42 pm

Ruchel wrote:

amother wrote:

tamiri I have to disagree with most things you say, I wouldnt consider this decision living a lie, because teenagers are not mature enough to make this lifelong decision.

I agree.
Once I wanted to leave high school and be an actress LOL

You could be sure I am glad my parents forced me to go on with hs and now I'm happily going for a master. Teens are totally immature and rebellious.

I stand by my first post.

Leaving school to be an actress is a fanciful idea and isn't logical at all. They would have been neglecting their parental duties by allowing you to make such a dumb decisions.

A teenager is smart enough to know if he/she's happy at the school they're at. A prize isn't going to make the unhappy situation any better.

Ruchel

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 2:48 pm

I would not talk about prize. I would

Quote:

have a very serious talk with him, tell him about the importance of family tradition and hashkafa.

If it doesn't work, let him be what he wants but tell him under your roof this and that doesn't go. If you do not push him too hard he may come back.

You can also say "when you will be independent you will decide, so for now think a lot but don't burn your bridges".

I want to say that if the problem is about learning all day vs working, many chassidim work. The "almost everyone in kolel" is a quite new trend. You may need to tell him he does NOT need to be Mo to work!

And yeah, bh I went on with my studies, although I did study theater a bit after I graduated.

amother

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 3:08 pm

Quote:

The boy here is not looking to leave school, he's looking to leave a way of life!!!

Op here perhaps I was not clear, my son is looking to go to work and get out of a Yeshivah setting as soon as possible. Wants to be independant and work for himself rather then do it our way and be bound by our rules.

Would still learn but on his terms. The first good yeshiva that we sent him to was very rigid in their rules more so then others and for some children it works wonderfully but in my particulars sons case we feel it made him depressed and so after a few years of being there we sent him to another yeshiva, but now we have to deal with all this.

Again I should stress he has not been in trouble with the yeshivas though he is towing along, rather then being an active participant , he lacks enthusiasim and this worrys me as amother the most to see your child sad!

Where did we go wrong so I know that we won't have these issues with my others which b"h so far shows not. Oh and it's not taharas hamishpocho b/c I am extra careful on that so please noone give me that.
Perhaps it's b/c we spolit him though he is our first .

Also Defy Rather isn't it better to live a couple of years pretending then be thrust into an secular life where no pretending is needed and the other lifestyle encouraged? Who knows perhaps/hopefully too it wont be all pretend.

Also why should I post in a particular forum. Why is here not good enough?

Tamiri

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 3:21 pm

OP, why are you faulting yourself? You should be saying to yourself BH I did such a mesirus nefesh job of raising this son so that the issues we are facing now are MINOR compared to what they could be, had he not had such a strong healthy upbringing. He's not doing drugs or alcohol or anything wicked, he is just seeking some freedom. Very common today, as I noted. Don't beat yourself up about it. In the past week (and it's not been the whole week yet) I have spoken to TWO very frum mothers whose sons have chosen do be off thier derech. One son, who was "perfect" his whole life, is now 26.5 and has "had enough" of religion. The other son, who is 16, whose older brother is an ilui (the whole family is brilliant) has decided he's an athiest. YOU ARE NOT ALONE. And I bet that if your community members were honest, you'd find you are not alone there either.
IF your son wants to leave school and work, so be it. But in that case I ammend what I wrote previously: he has to either support himself and find a place to live and make enough for living expenses, or pay into the family for the privilege of living with you. He can't be wishy washy about it. If he goes out on his own, it means he would like to show he's a man and you have to let him try. If he lives with you, even if he pays, he must abide by the rules of the house.
Your Chassidishe rules work for you and have worked for generations. Right now, they aren't working for him. You have to let him explore, if you want any chance of "keeping" him anywhere within the fold. You know that if he's depressed, he's not where he needs to be.
And don't worry yourself over the TM issues: Plenty of non jews who don't keep anything have wonderful children, even G-d fearing and righteous ones; plenty of Jews who follow TM have kids who turn out... different than expected. Don't take it personally.

Maya

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 6:07 pm

amother wrote:

doesnt necessarily mean, but from my experience, I have many friends that went of the chasidish way of life, and most are not shomer shabbos....
so I would say a huge percentage does.

If someone says, like the OPs son here, that he wants to be Orthodox, just a different kind, then it's a lot different than going off the derech. I am sure that many of you Chasidish friends just wanted to throw off of themselves the headache of being chasidish, and just do whatever they want.
I don't think this is what the OP's son wants. He wants to lead a yiddishe lifestyle, just differently than the way he was brought up.

greenfire

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 6:17 pm

forcing someone to do what you think is best will only make him more rebellious ... stray a lot farther ... and that is when there is less chance of turning back - if you want to help him listen to him and continue guiding him without the "NO" approach ... does it matter if he wears a blue shirt ... a pin stripe shirt ... or a white shirt ... I think not ... but if you make it an issue ... the "hells angels" t-shirt could be found ...

Motek

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 9:33 pm

momtomor wrote:

He wants to lead a yiddishe lifestyle, just differently than the way he was brought up.

If OP's son wanted to change from Bobov to Skver because he formed a connection with the Rebbe or rosh yeshiva there, I don't think OP's post would sound the same. Obviously, Modern Orthodoxy is a step down in yiddishkeit for her family, hence her concern. The posts by previous amother confirms the reason for her concern.

I don't think your post reflects her concerns tamiri, and I doubt that not being alone is a comfort. In fact, OP is worried about her younger children. I think she is asking valid questions but I don't think we can answer you OP, since we don't know you. Perhaps there is someone who knows you and your son who can direct you. I'm still wondering:

Do you have any further information to explain what happened? It's hard to respond with advice without it. Why is he going downhill in a good yeshiva? What is at the bottom of your son's outlook? What do his teachers have to say? What does being chasidish in your world consist of?