B-I-G Dilemma- How would you approach this?

amother

Mon, Dec 24 2007, 9:21 pm

My home is a no TV, no Movies home, although not narrow minded.

DD became friends with a girl, (lets call her Shavy) who is here for Kiruv from a different country (DD met Shavy through a friend of DD who worked with Shavy in a camp in the summer). A Rebbitzen in Shavy's birth country thought that Shavy would benefit by a Frum education in the U.S. and has the potential to become a vey good frum girl. Not the way I see it though, as she spends every bit of extra time in my home, talking about Hollywood stars and gossip and her desire to be like them and nothing else.

Shavy is living with a well known Rov and his family, in the community but they're allowing Shavy to do whatever she pleases. Shavy confided in DD that she got thrown out of another Frum school in a different state for talking to boys. Shavy talks to my daughter about boys that she used to be friendly with. Shavy still wants to meet boys, according to my daughter. Shavy gave my daughter all her pre-Frum clothing, to have fun with (try on and look in the mirror), bec. Shavy says she gained weight and she can't put any of them on. Worst of all, Shavy says she's only here for the education and not to become frum. Shavy's mother is married to a non-Jew, and probably doesn't care where Shavy ends up as far as religion (which religion or what extent).

Shavy is allowed to walk to and from my house at late hours, with the family she stays by, not caring one way or another.

DD isn't a good student and is very fun loving and adventurous. The two talk about Superstars and Idols all day. Shavy is very up to date on the who's who in the world of Superstars, since she has been following it from her hometown, for years, and my daughter is enjoying every tidbit. I think that if this girl got a little more supervision from the family where she is staying , it would be alot more under control. She loves the U.S. because it's FUN! and doesn't want to go back home.

How do I ensure that while the Kiruv mean to have a good influence on Shavy, Shavy doesn't have a bad influence on my daughter.
Shavy's Frumkeit might end up barely if at all keeping Shabbos. That would be a wonderful accomplishment for Shavy. Not for my daughter though.

I feel the family that is hosting Shavy, because of their lack of supervision, is going to lead to trouble for the FFB girls she befriends. Shavy has a persuasive, know it all personality.

What annoys me greatly is that no one is her Mechaneches, and checking up on where she is religiously, or is she pretending when asked, to be able to remain in the U.S.?

WWYD? Would you approach her principal, the people she lives with- or what?

Earnest

Mon, Dec 24 2007, 10:09 pm

This sounds really scarey. I live in CH and became uncomfortable with the attitude my daughter was adopting/adapting in the Beis Rivka mileiu.
I had real Sa'yta D'shmaya. She met a different 'crowd' of girls in a Lubavitcher summer camp, and one of the girls begged her to learn with her in an out-of-Crown-Heights high school. BH, it was a miracle that SHE wanted to leave the 'undesirable influence'....her whole class! and another miracle that she was accepted in Chicago's lubavitch girls high school with Mrs. Turen as the principal. In general, my husband and I talk openly with our children pre-teen, teen years, and post-teen-till-chupah. I'm not happy with the 'level' that some of my kids' have chosen, but that's what free choice is...it is ultimately their relationship with Hashem, and their sensitivity to ruchnius that influences them. Your daughter is young, though. Do you have a mashpia who is street-smart vis-a-vis teens?
Do you know of a good frum therapist in your area? Could placing a phone call to M.A.S.K. (Mothers and Fathers united in Saving Kids) be a possiblility? (I think all kids are kids-at-risk at some point. Heck, I think I'm a grandmother-at-risk at times). It's not even the stuff you know about that is worrisome. It's the stuff you don't know about. My married-kids-with-kids, shluchim or businessmen or teachers, know stuff about their teenage years that I don't know about...you bet I'd have a knippshin fit, even 8 years after the fact. Good night and good luck...Partner with your husband...

MiraV

Mon, Dec 24 2007, 10:28 pm

amother wrote:

I'm nervous to call where she's living just in case she's home then. My daughter will freak if she sees me as the snitch...........................

Run and don't walk to resolve this.

Here's some red flags I can think of that you need to investigate:

Is your daughter still friends with the people she knew before Shavy came?

You mentioned that she is not a good student. Are her grades suffering even more since Shavy befriended her? Has her behavior changed?

Why are you allowing your daughter to continue this relationship? You're the parent and she is a minor. You are the one who makes the rules not your daughter.

A fun loving and adventurous child who is not getting good grades needs to feel just as good as the star students. If she's not fulfilling her needs at school or in your community, she's going to get it in other ways.

Shavy is a BIG recipe for disaster but there are plenty of other Shavy's out there.

Call MASK tomorrow morning.

amother

Mon, Dec 24 2007, 10:37 pm

My daughter never had lots of friends (some kids just don't). This is the reason the Shavy relationship flourished. Shavy is here day and night. My daughter loves it.

My daughter will not let loose of Shavy, whether I speak to MASK 1 or 100 times!!!!!

The only thing that will help is if the Rebbitzens who should be taking care of Shavy start paying attention to what's going on with her, it will have a good effect on DD as well. Now how I do I move them to do that?

I think the Rebbitzens take on these projects with the best intentions and then can't give it the time it needs, and things go sour.

I hope to call where Shavy is living and maybe her school and I wonder if I'll get pushed off with "We'll see what we can do............

gonewiththewind

Mon, Dec 24 2007, 10:50 pm

amother wrote:

I'm nervous to call where she's living just in case she's home then. My daughter will freak if she sees me as the snitch...........................

Don't be afraid of your children. Your responsibility is first and foremost to your daughter and not kiruv. This well-known Rav has got to take some responsibility for whomever is staying at his house. Don't let the school or Rebitzen or whomever you call brush you off. Now is the time to be assertive and get what you want. Do it right away.

gryp

Tue, Dec 25 2007, 11:08 am

Amother, it seems to me that you've let this get too far with your own daughter. You are complaining that no one is in charge of the friend- which is completely true- but at the same time you haven't parented your own daughter either. Or you did and didn't write it in your post.
For example:

Quote:

Shavy is allowed to walk to and from my house at late hours, with the family she stays by, not caring one way or another.

Is there no rule in your house how late a visitor can stay?

Quote:

Shavy gave my daughter all her pre-Frum clothing, to have fun with (try on and look in the mirror), bec. Shavy says she gained weight and she can't put any of them on

What is your daughter going to do with untznius clothing? Do you let her have them?

Quote:

DD isn't a good student and is very fun loving and adventurous. The two talk about Superstars and Idols all day.

Have you made it clear to your daughter that this is not something we are "into" and the reasons?

Quote:

How do I ensure that while the Kiruv mean to have a good influence on Shavy, Shavy doesn't have a bad influence on my daughter.

If it was my daughter, before Shavy even got there, I would have told her clearly that Shavy is not like us and we are not like Shavy, although we could help her be like us. Your daughter should feel a responsibility to be a positive influence.
When someone is influencing positively, they can not be influenced negatively.

Quote:

Well, I did whatever I can.

You may have no say in Shavy's supervision, or lack of it, but you definitely have supervision over your daughter. It will be extremely difficult to change things now that they are good friends and any rules you come up with now will be a slap-on band-aid to fix a problem. The girls until now have been in charge of themselves and anything you do to try and change it can make them resentful and sneaky, resulting in more slap-on band-aid rules from you. You need to talk to your daughter about the problem you see and get her input. You need to make her understand what is going on and what you see wrong with it, and listen to her, how she feels about it. You need to decide what you will allow and what you won't, and the boundaries for your daughter. Set down the rules with her in your discussion. And remember, chinuch should be in a way of "Chavivus," in an endearing way. You can be firm and loving at the same time.

shalhevet

Tue, Dec 25 2007, 11:26 am

MiraV wrote:

Why are you allowing your daughter to continue this relationship? You're the parent and she is a minor. You are the one who makes the rules not your daughter.

GR wrote:

I don't really have anything to add to what MiraV and GR have to say.