better off being bad?

Beauty and the Beast

Wed, Oct 17 2007, 1:26 pm

With all the tragedies that go on, on a daily basis, it always gets me thinking. Most of the stories we hear happen to wonderful people, people who constantly work on themselves. We sadly always say that it must have been because Hashem wanted them near him, cuz they are so special...
We too, strive to become better people. We work on ourselves. Sometimes I think to myself, maybe I am better off being plain old me, and not trying to be so special.
Does anyone get what I am saying??
I know we dont know the cheshbon of Hashem, and why he does things, but this is one thing I have seen many times, and working on myself is becoming scary.... Confused

TammyTammy

Wed, Oct 17 2007, 1:37 pm

Beauty and the Beast wrote:

Self-improvement should have two aspects to it. One should be that it should bring you closer to HKBH.

However, self-improvement should have value even if only to yourself. By improving yourself (in whatever manner you do it -- through better middos, education, etc.) it should make you feel better about yourself. When you put time and effort into yourself, you are making yourself a better person and that should provide you with some self-satisfaction -- even if you don't feel like it's bringing you closer to HKBH.

Tammy

TzenaRena

Wed, Oct 17 2007, 1:49 pm

Firstly, I think "tamim tihyeh im Hashem Elokecho" refers to such cheshbonos. We aren't supposed to make them, just do what we are supposed to do. We can't possibly be worse off for that.

Secondly, all these amazing people also have amazing potential for yeridah ch"v, "kol hagadol mechaveroi yitzroi godol ..." On the other hand because of their potential for greatness, they have a (more) challenging shlichus that fits it, and more is expected of them. So as perfect as they seem to us, they have perhaps the same proportions as us ordinary people do...... "Only her Creator knows for sure" Wink

amother

Wed, Oct 17 2007, 2:00 pm

omg! I cant believe someone has the exact same thoughts I do!! shock

I think to myself "if that person did so much chesed and look what happened, then why should I do chesed?" And I sometimes feel 'confident' that nothing will happen to me because -who/what am I anyway?! embarrassed

But then I answer myself- #1- things happen to 'plain' people too.
and #2- I dont mean to be cynical, but everyone becomes "special" after they die (just like every fresh chosson is the "top" boy in yeshiva)

greenfire

Wed, Oct 17 2007, 2:36 pm

yeah it's too late when we die to be nice or do mitzvos ... but to purposely NOT try ... is somewhat ironic ... then how could we achieve our worldly goals ... those people who die that are good probably have done their tafkid/purpose - and we cannot climb higher by giving up and giving in ... nor by doing the opposite of what hashem gave us life for ...

Mommastuff

Wed, Oct 17 2007, 3:02 pm

Firstly, I have thought along those lines but it is THE YETZER HORAH talking to you!!
People who are great don't see the nisyonos as "bad" from Hashem. They know they are tests that they have the potential to pass. Think of the Gam Zu L'tovah stories - all the bad things were really good.

The yetzer horah is working overtime now adays!!

A little example for chizuk:

Just like a parent that wants to help their child walk will hold out their hands & walk backwords to exercise & strengthen the legs, so too Hashem is "walking backwords", watching us, hoping that we strengthen our middos/yiras shamayim to come closer to him. He wants us to comtinue to strive to come closer to HUG him, after all the pain of "walking".
Hashem loves us and only tests us to bring us closer!

amother

Tue, Feb 26 2008, 8:09 pm

I know exactly what you are saying.

My dh and I started working on ourselves and really improved in many areas... and that is when bad things started happening to us. I used to think that things worked that way before (ie, I was comfortable that I wasn't so "good" because then bad things would happen) and now that we are better and the bad things started happening it is hard for me not to see a correlation.

My one comfort is that I don't think I could have handled all of these things before, and now that I've worked on myself I'm managing. I guess Hashem gives you what you can handle!

Lechatchila Ariber

Tue, Feb 26 2008, 8:09 pm

I think a lot of the times when we see someone wonderful and amazing going through suffering, their being wonderful and amazing is often a product of their nisayon.
trials and tribulations can either bring out the worst or the best in you.

Its like when we look at couples going through nisyoinios in life, at times we see them fall apart as a result and other times they grow stronger as a result.

Esther23

Tue, Feb 26 2008, 10:29 pm

this is along the lines of "tzadik v'rah lo rasha v'tov lo", the age old question. Some answers that I've read about it: First of all we have absolutely no concept of how Hashem is running the world and everything is only for the good. "Yissurim memarkin avonoseihem shel adam" every tiny bit of yissurim that a person goes through in this world erases aveiros from his slate, so in this world it does seem terrible but when a person is being judged in olam haba the yissurim are zchusim that allow him into gan eden. Also very often a tzadik is taken as a korban for the tzibbur's aveiros and it's a huge kapparah on the community as opposed to a much worse thing happening to many people in the community.

ny_ima

Fri, Mar 14 2008, 1:59 am

just heard gr8 speech by Rabbi Daniel Zer www.rabenu.com and he was discussing the tragedy in Yeshivat harav and y the good ones go...

Hashem goes down to his garden to pick roses (shir hashirim)
His garden is where Torah is learned, and the roses r the purest neshamos whom He takes to be mechaper Am Yisrael instead of carrying out a well deserving gzeirah where multitudes must die. this is Hashems promise: if we do the mitzvos and keep the Torah, we will win every war, have goodness and protection...but if we dont keep and think being Jewish at heart is good enuf, He will bring tzaros, at first to wake us up to do tshuva (one does not scrape finger unlesw decreed from Above, and should ask self what did wrong to get this wake~up call)
when tragedy happens we are all obligated to wake up! if we dont and say these things happen, and dont recognize it as direct divine action, Hashem promises to bring on more tzaros seven times greater...till we repent.
those who dont keep Shabat and believe in kochi veotzem yadi have the nerve to question where Hashem is when His tzaddikim r learning Torah! they were a holy sacrifice because of Jews behaving not like children of G-d!
otoh, tzaddikim are Thrilled to be chosen to die for Kiddush Hashem and their reward in the next world is immeasurable.(imagine saving King`s Nation!) however for us the biggest nisayon is by hester-panim, when we dont understand the ways of Hashem. we should not even imagine beginning to understand The Creator!
Avraham Avinu was put thru this ultimate test. not only did he run to sacrifice his only beloved son...but Hashem had promised him that from Yitzchak will come his offspring. but he didnt ask or question! and he got up early and prepared himself not waiting for servants...he was extremely wealthy but his love for Hashem effected his actions.
also the tougher our tzaros, the closer the geula...so yes Mashiach is coming real soon and now is our last chances to better ourselves and stick to Hashem so we will endure.