Chabad & "SheLo Asani Isha" and the Siddur

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Crayon210

Fri, Nov 23 2007, 11:48 am

faigie wrote:

like do you think half of them could handle being amother???????

Some men definitely can handle being "amother"... LOL

red sea

Sat, Nov 24 2007, 7:57 pm

I was taught it is because women have less mitzvos than men and I don't remember if the teacher gave a source or anything.

on the old topic - I always thought that sefardim daven sfard not nusach sfard and the german siddur is ashkenaz not nusach ashkenaz. And since I davened at times with all four of those nusachim I found it interesting how sfard was close to nusach sfard, nusach sfard close to nusach ashkenaz, nusach ashkenaz close to ashenaz but in my unexpertised observations the two most similar were ashkenaz and sfard. sort of like a big circle. not sure where nusach ari (thats the lubav siddur, right?) would fit in that picture as I've never heard it.

TzenaRena

Sat, Nov 24 2007, 8:21 pm

There is similarity between nusach sfard and Nusach Ari.

gryp

Sat, Nov 24 2007, 8:33 pm

I've never opened a Nusach Sfard siddur but when I was little (9 or 10 years old) and my great-grandmother would stay by us for Shabbos, I would walk with her to the closest shul so she could daven, but it wasn't a Lubavitch one.
The differences in the siddur are there, but not terribly different. The night before I went to that shul for the first time my father showed me which pages to flip, what to skip, and pointed out some different words. I didn't have any difficulty Nusach Ari from a Nusach Ashkenaz siddur but if my father hadn't shown me, as a 9 yr old I would have been lost. As an adult, I would probably be able to figure it out myself.

Mommy3.5

Sat, Nov 24 2007, 10:02 pm

ForeverYoung wrote:

Motek, RG,

- Nusah Ashkenaz - Litvaks
- Nusah Sefard - Chasidim
- Nusah Sfarad - Sefardim
- Arizal - Chabad

what about the rest? does anybody know?

Sefardim do not daven nusach sefard, they Daven Nusach Edut Mizrach, and it is also based on the Ario hakodosh's nusach.

grin

Sat, Nov 24 2007, 11:28 pm

Yes, there are chasidim other than Chabad who use the Nusach Ari siddur published by Kehot (the Alter Rebbe’s version), just as they use the Shulchan Aruch Harav for halacha, as it was the Maggid who entrusted the Alter Rebbe with both these tafkidim (before the Alter Rebbe introduced Chasidut Chabad).
I was also told in particular about the bracha “shelo asani isha” that there are some Lubavichers who say it and some that don’t – each should maintain their own minhag (or ask their mashpia).

Ruchel

Sun, Nov 25 2007, 7:17 am

I doubt we can say all Sefardim daven from the same. Are we speaking Spanish, or North Africans? Persians? Temeni? Iraki?...

Chani

Sun, Nov 25 2007, 11:57 am

Good discussion.

I daven nusach Ashkenaz, but I recently purchased a Hirsch Siddur with commentary by S. R. Hirsch, ztl. I noticed that instead of "shelo asani [gentile]" it states "shelo asani nachri". I thought it was interesting...

The commentary in this siddur is fantastic, btw.

Ruchel

Sun, Nov 25 2007, 12:11 pm

I have asked dh.
The Spanish Sefardim (spain, italy, greece, turkey, basically the Europeans...) daven from sfarad. Those from North africa have their own, derived from sfarad but modified, except some from the very North side of Morocco.
Persians, Iraki, Syria, LIban, Egypt... have their own thing. Nothing to do with Sefardim (sefarad = Spain!). R' Ovadia Yossef's is Iraki, and now followed by many "Sefardim" (not from spain originally).

Complex stuff...

Motek

Thu, Mar 20 2008, 4:29 pm

Quote:

what men might say:

What is wrong with me? I cannot pray on my own, where I want to and how I want to? In order to say certain prayers I need nine other women with me? Am I seen as only 1/10 of a person in Judaism? Am I not a whole enough person? Why is it that men can pray whenever they want, wherever they want, but me, I am required to be in a certain place at certain times? Why can't I just pour out my soul to G‑d like men can, however they feel like it? They don't need prescribed times to recite prayers! They don't even need to recite prayers? It is optional! Yet us women, we are not good enough to just communicate with our G‑d. We can't be trusted to just speak to G‑d on our own so all the prayers have to be written out for us to recite. And even the recitation can't be on our own, but we have to show up, so that everyone else can see if we are there!

read the entire article here:

http://www.chabad.org/theJewis.....n.htm

freidasima

Mon, Apr 07 2008, 1:09 pm

Just saw this bumped up thread now.

BTW Motek, what you said about all non-Chassidim calling themselves Litvaks isn't really precise, also that there are very few decendents of "true" Litvaks from Lithuania...try saying that in South Africa where almost all of the Jewish community is from Lithuania originally!

Also my dh is a "true" Litvak on his father's side...to the point where one of his ancestors was even a chief rabbi of Lithuania for a short while..and there are lots of them.(Litvaks, not chief rabbis)....he belongs to "Irgun Yotzei Lita" in EY and there are roomsfull of men who are true Litvaks...

Ruchel

Mon, Apr 07 2008, 2:11 pm

Most non chassidim aren't Litvak in the "from Lithuania" sense for sure... they just associate more with Litvish ideology because they're not chassidim. I'm thinking Yekke, Swiss, French....

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