neighbor lost an item they borrowed

amother

Mon, Sep 01 2008, 3:43 pm

ok so a bit of a sticky situation came up recently. a neighbor of mine went to the country for a few weeks and borrowed my window unit air conditioner for that temporary time period. (we don't use it usually, we have central).
when they came back from the country, they called me to ask if I picked up my a/c from their house. I said no, you never called me to. why? so they said that they sent home the a/c with someone else who had dropped it off in front of their home 2 days before they arrived. when they came home and didnt see it, they assumed I took it. however, I didnt take it and now we have concluded that it was stolen. (they never called me to let me know that the a/c would be dropped off and I shold look out for it and pick it up.)

soooooo......

they offered to repay us, of course. but they are arguing that the a/c was used and didnt work so well so its not worth so much. they argue and tayna about how much they really need to pay. (we never yet told them an amount, this is just what they are telling us.)

so what do you think is appropriate here? lets put aside the fact that the words "thank you for lending us your very expensive A/C, and were are so sorry we lost it" never came out of their mouth. is it fair for me to ask for the money I think its worth, say for the amount I would need to spend on another used a/c?
honestly, even if she pays me I am so disgusted by this attitude of them trying to alleviate their irresponsibility that I dont see myself ever lending them anything again or doing any favors again since they are behaving just so distasteful.

(BTW, just a side note, my DH just helped them raise a lot of money for their son's yeshivah. I feel like this is a classic example of a total cafoy tov.)

ShakleeMom

Mon, Sep 01 2008, 3:47 pm

Depending on how much you value the relationship I would ignore it and move on. If they feel like it, they will drop off an envelope and leave it at that. Our 6 units form my old apartment are waiting for takers since we got central yet when a neighbor asked for a price I said mah blah and then they didn’t take it. I’d prefer to sell it to a [gentile], honestly. I value the relationship too much for them to say, ‘it had a crack’ or who knows what. It’s a decision you will have to make.

bubby

Mon, Sep 01 2008, 3:55 pm

You probably feel that they took advantage of your good nature & that they don't feel any achrayos towards making sure you got the A/C back. Not nice, & I wouldn't think you'd lend anything again either.

Maybe you can ask for say $100 to be made out to a Tzedaka of your choice. That way they have to take responsibility & you don't seem cheap for asking for reimbursement when you don't really need it as you have central. Of course, if you were keeping it for somebody, that's different.

It's a sticky situation. Shakespeare said "Neither a borrower nor a lender be." He was right. Sad

greenfire

Mon, Sep 01 2008, 3:59 pm

wow who loans an air conditioner ... there is always wear & tear on used items so while it was not new and they "lost" it ... they most certainly should pay you however probably not more than 30% of it's cost ... unless it was brand new ... it's a hard call when people do not treat borrowed property with the same as they would their own ... and most surely I wouldn't lend them items if they cannot do so ...

Raisin

Mon, Sep 01 2008, 5:20 pm

I think these types of people just harm themselves in the long run. they may save a few dollars by not giving you money they should, but they have lost your goodwill.

We had a similar story with some people who moved here. A friend of ours helped them move, and in the process, his car got damaged, since they overloaded the car. They informed him that they had asked a rav, and he said they did not need to pay for the damage. it was not a huge amount of money, maybe a couple of hundred dollars. because of that, both this guy and us (since we heard the story) have not been over enthusiastic with offers of help, help which would make their life a lot easier and save them money.

flowerpower

Mon, Sep 01 2008, 6:31 pm

You better make sure they pay you a decent amount whether they are willing or not. Part of the price is for not being appreciative, irresponsible, and a little rude. Someone borrowed a book from me once that was read a lot of times. She told me after that she lost it and what she should do. I nicely told her that it was a good book and she can get me another one. That is exactly what she did.

amother

Mon, Sep 01 2008, 9:51 pm

This is pretty bad. The fact that they're sitting and nitpicking over how much it's worth is probably a good indication that they're pretty tight on money, and if I were in your position, I'd feel really aweful taking any money from them. True, they were irresponsible and careless with something you own, and nothing will right that. But you may be asking them for money they don't have and may want to be very sensitive how you approach them. Shalom is worth a lot. I would calmly sit down and figure out how much your used a/c was worth. Even though you will need to pay the full price to replace it, I don't think it's fair to ask for the full amount. I would tell them how much it's worth, ask if they think it's reasonable. If not, ask for a dollar amount from them and accept that. It may hurt, but you'll probably feel better in the end. Hatzlacha!!

ceo

Mon, Sep 01 2008, 10:05 pm

Yikes...this is truly unfortunate, and it stinks how thy're not being gracious about it. So what if it was used? At the end of the day you can't walk into Best Buy and ask for an air conditioner that's in "used condition." You have two options:

Tell them, "You know what? I'm not sure the correct way to handle this. I know that you think you should only pay xxx. However, I won't be able to replace my unit for that amount. Let's go together to ask a Rav what the best thing to do is."

However, if you can do without your a/c, I would just forget it. Remember that if you are able to overlook the wrongdoings of others upon you, HKBH can do the same to you!!!

amother

Mon, Sep 01 2008, 10:27 pm

OP here:
every one thanks for your advice. I told her that she should let the husband's work it out so at least I wont need to deal with it. my husband told him to pay or buy him another used one so he said ok.

as for the fact that they may be tight on money, I thought about that but:
1. his parents are super rich and support them, they wont starve by paying us back they will just ask their parents, these ppl dont have financial stress
2. if you cant afford to pay for it then dont borrow it. that's the policy my mom instilled in me growing up
3. so if your tight on money then you are allowed to darshen how you dont need to return something that was borrowed? right is right
4. they didnt come and say sorry we dont have the money, they said well we dont have to pay cuz it didnt work so well.

but even if they pay now, my husband said never ever to lend them anything again, just dont deal with them. I want to be nice since I dont want to have to feel incomfortable every time I meet ehr but I really dont trust them. such a shame to feel this way with neighbors, especially since our kids play together. ii just cant believe that there are ppl out there who could outrightly and shamelessly do such a thing its just so low

Love My Babes

Mon, Sep 01 2008, 11:04 pm

some ppl just dont have manners. someone borrowed a kitchen item from me, and said, oh im sorry my cleaning lady threw it out. it was not very expensive. its just the principal of it. if u borrow u need to return, and if something happens u need to pay. wether its one dollor or 1000. its not yours to lose....

mumoo

Tue, Sep 02 2008, 12:52 am

sheli shelach Bottom line it's not worth shalom; ceo's idea to go to a Rov was right on.

But -shelach, shelach (it was so hard to get this double standard across to my ds's- I agree with most here- if you borrow something be prepared to replace it if necessary whatever the condition.

I had floor damage done by a refrigerator repairman. the floor was not new- or even decent. But when the adjuster (after 9 months of grief) finally admitted liability, he offered to pay $750 less for depreciation. I told him, maybe the floor wasn't new but it was intact and functional.

That our belongings aren't perfect when we lend them should not penalize us. Maybe the borrowers didn't get a new a/c, but they also had the use of a working one at a "very good price."