Are women allowed to watch movies?

shalhevet

Thu, Sep 25 2008, 3:44 pm

This is coming from the shalom bayis thread, but is a totally different issue, because I am interested in answers from women who didn't ask shailas with a shalom bayis element (which might change the issue for all I know).

I learned that it is assur for women to see untzniyus things - which would include women dressed untzniusly in inappropriate settings (eg nothing wrong for a mikva lady seeing someone dunk, or for someone to see other women in bathing suits at a separate pool). It is not as serious as a man seeing it, but still falls under the loose category of being kadosh. Also, what about the secular influences from the content?

On thread after thread we have people saying they watch movies whether with/ without their husbands.

So I would like to know - has anyone - Litvish, Chassidish or Lubavitch (not asking MO because I know some of their rabbanim permit it) been told by a rav that there is nothing wrong in watching a movie - clean or otherwise (and if you mean Ushpizin don't bother, not that I've seen it - but maybe it does sound like it's okay)?

If you were told yes by a recognized rov, please say which 'camp' you belong to, and if there were any limitations.

red sea

Thu, Sep 25 2008, 6:56 pm

Shalhevet, I doubt anyones really thought to ask a rabbi if they can watch movies.

Movies is a very broad topic esp if you consider all that type of media to be movies, rabbi lectures, uncle moishey, documentaries, jewish ones, hollywood ones etc.

I think pple just need common sense and have their own definition where the line is, not so b&w.

Re tznius - if you can see women in communal store dressing room or even say a bracha in front of another woman undressed to a certain degree, where is that line? I think tznius has more to do with why a man cant rationalize watching very well.

I think (for women) its more to do with watching values & morals that are in opposition to the torah which exposes you to influences not really good which is far easier to call a gray area (hence easier to say ok).

Last edited by red sea on Thu, Sep 25 2008, 7:09 pm; edited 1 time in total

ora_43

Thu, Sep 25 2008, 6:57 pm

Some might not think quarter of two in the morning is a good time to call their rabbi Wink

.

Others are MO and waiting to see what all the imamothers with hareidi/chassidic rabbis will say.

And most of the hareidi/chassidic probably don't watch movies, so why would they ask?

That's what I thought of the silence, anyway.

I belong to the group that watches movies, but not with human beings, so I always assumed it was fine. I don't think Nemo or Simba or Lala are a real tznua problem (although they don't seem to be wearing clothes shock

).

I have watched things that are problematic, at least that's how I see it--problematic but not assur. I'll ask my rabbi about it soon, bli neder. I based my assumption on memories of kiruv groups that have movie night--most of the movies are mostly tznua, but do include women, love stories, mild physical contact, etc. I assume the kiruv people asked rabbis about it.

mummiedearest

Thu, Sep 25 2008, 7:12 pm

shalhevet, I grew up watching classic movies. ever watch "mr. smith goes to washington?" there is seriously NOTHING wrong in that film aside from casual negia. and I doubt anyone would consider that a reason to avoid the film. I can't imagine anyone asking a shaila about a film like that.

what about in a school setting? my fourth grade teacher showed us "school house rock." informative and catchy. I doubt any parent would have objected to it.

there are some really interesting documentaries out there. I find history to be fascinating. okay, history is going to be presented in a biased manner, but that doesn't mean we should avoid it.

I think this opens a topic for a new thread: how often do you use your own knowledge rather than asking a rav? do you think this is positive or negative? how much room is there for independent decisions in today's Jewish society?

I am not asking the last question to offend anyone. but I have noticed that certain posters consult their rav/mashpia about things that I feel I can deal with privately in an effective manner with no halachic issues. I find this especially concerning when it comes to marital issues.

I know someone who consulted a rav about whether or not halachicly she was allowed to quit a job that hadn't paid her for the last year's work. meanwhile, hubby was in kollel and she was expecting. the parents had to help, and they're not exactly wealthy. the rav said to give them like a month's notice. I would never have thought to consult a rav on this matter. the employer (frum) had not paid a few month's salary already. to me that is more of a halachic issue than quitting as a result. even hearing the rav's opinion, I would not ask a shaila if I went through the same thing. because if I have a contract that says I work for x a month, I understand it to mean that if you don't pay me I don't work for you. this is standard.

about movies: no rav will tell you you can watch every movie out there with a clear conscience. so how to ask this shaila? call him from blockbuster while perusing the aisle in order to pick one which is halachicly ok? that's as practical as asking single guys' references if the guy has ever looked at [filth].
if you do your research right, you can find a kosher film to watch.

Mommyholic

Thu, Sep 25 2008, 9:07 pm

While watching movies falls into the "gray area" of halacha perhaps. Watching movies is a great temptation for me, but a number of years ago I'd decided that the effects of watching, even things rated P-G, was adverse. Aside for the impure, secular ideals and morals that subconciously pervade and affect us. So I try very hard not to... Not to say I don't slip, but it only reinforces for me why I choose not to...
(I found Ushpizin amazing... What I would categorize it as, don't know.)

Yet, I feel that it isn't a matter of halacha per se, but rather something that estranges us from G-d and definitely something He doesn't want us doing. If so..... why are we doing it?
(In fact, R' Shimshon Pincus z'l once mentioned watching Bugs Bunny on a plane, in a shiur of his, and he said, that perhaps we think it's benign and nothing could possibly be wrong with watching a bunny jumping around on the screen... it impedes on our growth and relationship with Hashem.... )

I think that this is where all of us need strength, we seek to find ways we're allowed to do things, while we should be focusing on how to do things properly and grow a bit spiritually- It is a few days to Rosh Hashana and all....
Speaking of... There's this great movie to put you in the Rosh Hashana mode. I showed it to my students today. Most are irreligous and they were quite inspired. Google Video: Seal of Truth or Chotam Emet. About a man who clinically died and he went through Heavenly judgement and describes it all. I took out of it, more than the fear... He was secular and the few small good things he did had such drastic effects in the celestial world...

Motek

Thu, Sep 25 2008, 9:19 pm

red sea wrote:

Re tznius - if you can see women in communal store dressing room or even say a bracha in front of another woman undressed to a certain degree, where is that line?

good point
what is the isur in a woman seeing another woman in a state of undress?
What are all those halachos about in Shulchan Aruch about when a woman can say a bracha in front of a naked woman? I don't know. I wonder. Especially when there are halachos about getting dressed and undressed modestly.

shlishka

Thu, Sep 25 2008, 9:55 pm

When I was in high school (a VERY frum chareidi high school) we had overnights every lag b'omer and would watch a movie each year. One year was The Adopted Princess. There was another one about a couple adopting children from Cambodia. This was years ago, and I don't think they would do it anymore.
I used to watch video's as a teen (Karate Kid, Annie, Parent Trap) but in my circles, it is not accepted anymore to do so. I think it's because Hollywood has sunk so low, that we try to distance ourselves as much as possible from the "shmutz". I have let my girls watch Anne of Green Gables and Mary Poppins, as I found nothing objectionable in them.
While everyone has their own level of Ruchniyus, I don't see how we could say watching a clean movie is ossur, anymore than saying reading a contemporary novel, or even a Reader's Digest is ossur.
I have a friend who won't even read jewish novels. I am nowhere near that madreiga.
Those of you that think you need to ask a Rabbi before watching a movie, would you ask him before reading a book?

mummiedearest

Thu, Sep 25 2008, 10:06 pm

shlishka wrote:

times have certainly changed.

about jewish novels-- I don't read them either. but because I think they're ridiculous and badly written. is your friend doing it for ruchniyus purposes or general intelligence purposes? just curious.

amother

Thu, Sep 25 2008, 11:48 pm

I love watching movies and grew up where it was taboo. People who watched didn't talk about it. My mother went to the movies and had a vcr in her bedroom but we weren't allowed. I think that's why I have such a strong Teivah to movies and TV now as an adult. My kids schools don't let them watch anything, not even Uncle Moishe, etc. but I allow my kids to watch bec. I see what not being able to watch did to my Yetzer Hora. I hate that I'm breaking a school rule, but I do it anyway bec. I know how much they enjoy it and I do too.

Raisin

Fri, Sep 26 2008, 5:44 am

mummiedearest wrote:

shlishka wrote:

Maybe she just doesn't like reading?

rachel19977

Sat, Sep 27 2008, 3:34 pm

First of all, there is someone that wrote a Jewish book saying how TV/Movies are bad... can't recall the name, but the person who wrote it is the same person who wrote "The Magic Touch"... google it you'll find it.

There's a short article from the book about the TV part on aish.com (too lazy to look up now)

ANYHOW - it's not if ALLOWED or ASSUR. It's exactly WHAT is going into your mind, assur... and how we think about it and how it will affect our life. Of course, when we are watching this "assur" movies (no, I'm not talking about the Mitzva Tanz in your sisters wedding or HaRav Amnon Yitzchak Torah lecture) - what is the outcome? How do you know it dosen't affect you?

I've done the "experiment" with my children (Dudu Fisher, Baby Einstein 2 years ago) for about 4 months. I didn't like the outcome... I didn't see what was wrong at first, but then...... oooo! I can talk your ear off. But I'll stop now! 8)

To end off, did anyone read the book I mentioned above?

freidasima

Sat, Sep 27 2008, 3:56 pm

Well I may be MO but here I am talking about my charedi friends and relatives.
A generation ago it was quite acceptable for charedi women to go to movies because they were generally clean. Same goes for the theatre although it was rarer that they went.

I remember sundays my charedi relatives in England, mostly chassidic, the men would have a shiur, the kids were in cheider and the women would go to a matinee movie together.