If a tragedy befalls on Rosh Hashana

happyone

Thu, Oct 02 2008, 4:56 am

If tragedy chas veshalom happens second day Rosh Hashana - or even in aseres Yemei Teshuva (ie. someone dies) Is it something that was destined last year Rosh Hashana, or would you say it's the new year?

Does our signed and sealed fate really begin after Yom Kippur?

shalhevet

Thu, Oct 02 2008, 8:29 am

If something happens even the first day RH, it has been decided on RH. Our din is written starting from neitz on RH, but it can be changed until YK. We actually discussed this at our YT table - if someone does teshuva during aseres yemei teshuva, it can be immediately changed and doesn't have to wait until YK.

greenfire

Thu, Oct 02 2008, 8:32 am

I hate the correlation ... mi yichyeh mi yamus ... are we that evil we must die ... didn't Hashem create us this way ... I tend to think about the poor souls who've lost people and feel punished not just of their loss but of perhaps if they deserved it ...

amother

Thu, Oct 02 2008, 9:27 am

its strangethis is being brought up. My dh's passed away the 1st day of R"H and we were wondering when it was decreed. Like was it decreed and immediatle happened just like that. Its really scary. We were in shul hearing "who will live and who will die" and found out the same time we were there he passed away.

Makes you think Crying

Stayci

Thu, Oct 02 2008, 9:36 am

I've heard many tradegies that happened on Rosh Hashanah. It's such a scary wake up call! Its like seeing the words in the machzor come to life....... but then again it comforts me that the pesukim of geulah will come true as well. Amen!

someoneoutthere

Thu, Oct 02 2008, 10:22 am

greenfire wrote:

Chas veshalom to assume "we are that evil we must die". Death came to this world for a very specific reason- when the Yetzer Hora became internalized in man, it necessitated that there be death in order that the "ra" not have eternal life. As the holy part, the neshama, lives eternally, it's not affected by death in that way.
That's why we have death.

As for deserving it- I don't know, I never felt that way. G-d makes decrees, not only based on what I deserve but whats good for this world and all people involved. Death is a part of life and He decides when and what, not alwys because I deserve it.

Motek

Fri, Oct 03 2008, 8:31 am

someoneoutthere wrote:

As for deserving it- I don't know, I never felt that way. G-d makes decrees, not only based on what I deserve but whats good for this world and all people involved. Death is a part of life and He decides when and what, not alwys because I deserve it.

Since Hashem's ways are perfect, anything He does takes into account all the ramifications. To me that says that everybody gets what they deserve, for good or otherwise, in every detail.

Shirley

Fri, Oct 03 2008, 8:39 am

Motek wrote:

someoneoutthere wrote:

Since Hashem's ways are perfect, anything He does takes into account all the ramifications. To me that says that everybody gets what they deserve, for good or otherwise, in every detail.

Or, the fact that Hashem is perfect and has created a perfect world - means that all that happens is for the right reason and for the best. Even if it doesn't look like it.

That doesn't mean that misdeeds are rewarded with death. Just like at times good deeds seem to go unrewarded! We can't see, and therefore don't fully understand the big picture - but being perfect and just doesn't mean that 'we get what we deserve' (in our earthly life).

Motek

Fri, Oct 03 2008, 9:35 am

Shirley wrote:

That doesn't mean that misdeeds are rewarded with death.

Rambam in hilchos teshuva says that this is what the 10 Days of Repentance are about. Those with half and half, good deeds and bad deeds, are given a chance to tip the scale. He also says that a person with more bad deeds is immediately judged to death, same with a country.

This doesn't mean that every person who dies is a rasha, of course, since for now, death is the 'way of the world.'

someoneoutthere

Fri, Oct 03 2008, 10:44 am

"get what you deserve" is generally said with negative connotations. So, no. People don't always die because "they deserved it".

Yes, G-d makes a plan for everyone. If someone dies, He's taken into account the reprecussions on all of the family members, and others, who will be affected. It's what's right for them, but it's not 'deserved' necessarily. Again, using deserved in the vernacular.

Rambam in hilchos teshuva may be referring to a case where the person/nation has the din of death over them. There are many other dinim that aren't good, but aren't death either.