Teshuva process affecting families-bec. BT after marriage

amother

Sun, Aug 17 2008, 3:14 am

I was reading a novel in which the father became a baal teshuva and the mother did not and how it tore about the family, and it made me wonder how things happen in real life.

If someone you know became a baal teshuva while married (either both the husband and wife or just one spouse), how did it affect their marriage and kids? Did both become religious or just one?

Feel free to post anon as I know this is a sensitive topic.

zufriedene

Sun, Aug 17 2008, 3:32 am

a couple that I know for the last 2 years, the dh has taken upon tora and mitzvos and the wife is totally not ready, so she respects his wishes about going to the mikve but their Rav made them a number of leniencies because she was really suffering and not ready. the kitchen became kosher and shabas is a major issue, she will cook in advance for the family but just might still prepare something quick (coffee) for herself, or take a shower.
they get along very well, have 4 children and accept it as a challenge.
its even more difficult when a 10 yr old decides he wants to br frum here in Israel there are many families that have great challenges and its a pleasure to see them cope and certainly they deserve to be admired,
when in BP did we need such msiras nefesh??

amother

Sun, Aug 17 2008, 3:33 am

There is a family I know of in Israel where the opposite happened. The husband became secular and left his wife and remarried someone secular. He had children from the first marriage and one from the second so far. So sad.

I think when it's the case you're describing, couples are more likely to stay together. I see sometimes these men who are black hat with these women dressed in pants, hair uncovered that are clearly married. You don't usually see it with the woman being the frum one. In fact I've never seen that. I wonder if it's because those marriages don't last, or if it just doesn't happen so much.

What book? I'd be interested to read it.

amother

Sun, Aug 17 2008, 3:35 am

I'm amother above. I just realized I do know of a guy who became a baal teshuva in his marriage. The wife did not like it and she didn't want to change. The marriage didn't last, even though they had kids, but I don't know if one was pushing more for the divorce or the other. He remarried a woman who also became frum later in life and they have at least one child together.

amother

Sun, Aug 17 2008, 3:39 am

coming home, its called.

in my family, my parents also got
divorced bec of this.
my tatty became ultra yeshivish
after my mom tried to get him interested
in being just traditional and going to shul
my mom wasnt interested in becoming "black"
ended up hating my dad for forcing
religion on her and us. he became a real extremist
and they faught all the time and
eventually they got divorced.
I was young when we became religious
I'm the most frum from my family
but my siblings range
all the way from very mo to modern yeshivish
and my mother isnt shomer shabbos
but is still traditional

TheBeinoni

Sun, Aug 17 2008, 3:52 am

When my husband and I were engaged, we were both more "traditional" or very, very, very laid back MO. We both knew that we want to grow in our observance, but it turns out that I have been moving "faster" on the path, at least on the outside. I have become very "strict" compared to how I was as a kallah. I am fully frum, but DH is more on his own path (still traditional but not frum). Kosher is no problem B"H and neither is TH because we knew where we stood on those issues (were always strict on them even when we were just traditional, and any stringency I have taken on B"H is supported by DH respectfully and encouragingly.) Shabbat can be difficult at times (DH is not fully shomer shabbat). When we go places, people are very confused - he's got jeans and a baseball cap on, and I've got a skirt, long sleeves, stockings, and wig!

In the beginning we had our "issues" but B"H with the guidance of incredible rabbanim and mutual respect and love for one another we have amazing shalom bayit.

smilingmom

Sun, Sep 21 2008, 7:36 am

Hotmama,
I agree with you completely the key as you said is "with the guidance of incredible rabbanim and mutual respect and love for one another". When we married I was MO. my DH was traditional. I made 3 pre-requisites. kosher shabbos & TH. We had great difficulties the first year, and when I was pregnant with my first kid, I asked him to take a year off from his job to go to Yeshiva. 27 years later, he is still in kollel. I still consider myself MO, though I cover my hair & no longer wear jeans, but as husband changed throughout the years we have had the support of his Rosh Yeshiva, which made everything go smoother.
We also look funny, me with my denim skirt, baseball cap & sandals without socks and DH with black suit, hat & full beard.

red sea

Sun, Sep 21 2008, 1:06 pm

I actually have 2 friends whose mothers became frum while married. The fathers never did yet they remain married and the children are frum. Oh and there isnt strife over it, the parents came to certain understandings and boundaries & respect them.

Gsanmb

Sat, Oct 18 2008, 9:12 pm

Ahhh, this would be me. Exactly. I am not embarrassed about it and do not need to use "amother".

It's a very long story but the short one is this: my husband and I started dating while at university. He stayed in the same city to go to graduate school and I went to another city for grad school. Still dating. I became involved with Torah while away. We got engaged, and I said, Shabbos, Kashrus, Taharas HaMishpacha. he said, fine, what's that? Wink

I suppose it's better for both of us that neither of us knew what we were really getting into.

On the other hand, by the time we actually married, we'd been a couple for nearly 5 years (although separated for 3.5) and because of the distance, were good at communicating.

I am really frum. I cover my hair, skirts, etc. I daven in a "yeshivish" shtiebel. We live in a frum area. My kids go to a Bais Yaakov and a yeshiva. You would never know, from looking at me on the street, that I was any different from any other 'frum' person (although maybe slightly less fashion-forward than the local cohort, lol). The schools know all about us and had no problem, they are very encouraging and helpful and they know that I go past the last yard to make sure everything is done properly in our home and set the right example for the kinderlach.

Dh does not wear a kippah (except when eating, making kiddush etc., or going to school functions or Shabbos/Yomtov meals etc.) or tzitzis. He does not own tefillin and does not know how to put on his tallis (he's worn it three times...to name our girls, and at our son's bris). He does not know how to read Hebrew (uses transliterated bentcher or siddur to make kiddush, havdalah, etc.). He does not know from Shatnez (I take care of it). He is somewhat bewildered by things like eiruv, etc. but he trusts that I will let him know when something needs to be done in a certain way or only by him, like havdalah etc.).

On the other hand, he is accommodating. He sees the general moral value of this lifestyle; he appreciates what I'm trying to do for our family. He believes in Hashem although the more picayune details really don't resonate for him. He cooperates with those because he knows it's important to me. He is not particularly interested in pursuing learning independently -- not with Aish, not with Chabad, etc. -- although when his parents (a'h) both died, he was very appreciative of the help we received with regard to shiva etc. When our son gets older, it will be more challenging in terms of shul, tefillin, etc.

Our rav is amazing. Simply amazing. Works with us, is incredibly supportive, and is just a tremendous mentsch and in my opinion a tzaddik. We have been very fortunate to find a warm kehilla with people who are understanding and also supportive. It is not so easy around here, it's a big area and can be very intimidating. We were really zocheh to literally land in the right place (around the corner!) for the people who could be our friends and neighbors, as well as mentors. Talk about siyata d'shmaya. I can write many stories of how close Hashem is all the time...so many stories of hashgacha pratis in my personal life.

I will not lie. It is not easy. I daven more than once a day with all my heart that Hashem should help him see the big light of Torah and want to be totally shomer mitzvos.

On the other hand, my husband is a mentsch. He may not keep all the mitzvos, but he has great middos. He has integrity. He doesn't gossip. It would NEVER occur to him to become involved with anything inappropriate. He treats others with respect and honor. So yeah, I would love it if he were to go learn for a while (and he'd be so good at it...he has a mind like a steel trap). But as a trade-off? Much rather have someone with amazing middos than someone who fakes their way through... (not that it's necessarily a choice, but I have also seen that around here).

We have good shalom bayis. We run into difficulties when it comes to things like moving/buying a house (it would be so much less costly to be somewhere not frum), tuition, etc. Or when he wants desperately to go to a social event on Shabbos, or listen to a playoff game on the radio (we have no TV), or just eat anywhere when we go on a road trip or out for the day. Those times get touchy and require some advance preparation.

Would I want my kids to do it? No, I'd much rather they grow up frum, and marry frum. But I also know that they understand, more than most, that ahavas Yisroel is among the highest of mitzvos -- and that in their own family maybe not everyone understands all about Torah and mitzvos, but we are all doing our best all the time. And how lucky THEY are to be growing up knowing about Torah and able to teach their mommy and daddy about it too.

shosh

Sun, Oct 19 2008, 3:28 am

Gsanmb, that's a beautiful post, and for various reasons, I really identify with what you've written. I think middos are also what's most important in a marriage, and from what you've described, the rest can be worked out ...

Akeres Habayis

Sun, Oct 19 2008, 1:30 pm

gsanmb WONDERFUL POST thanks for sharing.may u continue to have revealed nachas from your family.