Elie Wiesel's Proposed Punishment for Bernie Madoff

ora_43

Fri, Mar 13 2009, 6:33 am

I think Madoff is every bit as bad as he's being made out to be. He had so many years to rethink what he was doing, and used that time to take more money instead.

Didn't chazal compare taking all of someone's money to killing them (does anyone know what I mean -- commentary on Esav's son/grandson who was sent to kill Yaakov as he fled -- gah why can I never remember exact sources...)?

I like Elie Wiesel's punishment, very creative.

OTOH I agree with JC that Madoff is being disproportionately blamed to a certain extent. I think it's easier to point at Madoff as a source of bankruptcy, businesses going under, etc, than to look at the much larger issue of American banking policy, the whole mortgage issue which ties in to home ownership (how maybe it won't be nearly as easy to reach anymore) and what Americans can realistically expect out of life, materially speaking, whether the government needs to step in and to what extent... It's easier to avoid those tough debates and talk about Madoff because everyone agrees that stealing is bad.

I don't know what most Americans think about Madoff in respect to the overall financial crisis, I'm going more on what I see in the American media, which seems to be pushing the Madoff story at the expense of the issues that will have an effect in the much longer term.

(And I also see JC's point re: theft compared to other crimes... I think what's getting to people here is the scope. A mugger or molester can hurt one or 10 or dozens of people, and that's unfortunately not unheard of... but this guy managed to hurt tens of thousands and that is very uncommon, and very frightening).

Barbara

Fri, Mar 13 2009, 7:40 am

Raisin wrote:

he didn't just steal from the rich. he stole from yeshiva university, plus some Jewish day schools. who do you think will lose out? poor parents who can't afford the fees and will not be getting scholarships now.

And is it really any better to steal from the *rich* than from the *poor*? AIUI, this man has been taking millions of dollars from people for decades -- DECADES -- without a hint of compunction. He has invested a penny of that money, so far as anyone can tell, for THIRTEEN YEARS. All that time, he was living high and lying to each and every investor. To Eli Weisel's foundation. To YU. To day schools. To good people.

Regrets? Sure. He regrets getting caught.

Martha Stewart spent 5 months in prison not for insider trading (she was never even charged with that) but for lying to investigators about a stock tip. Contrast that to what Madoff did. *The rest of his life* in prison sounds harsh, but he's not acutally getting a life sentence. Its just that the guy is 70 years old, so his life expectancy isn't longer than the 20 or so year sentence he'll get.

Barbara

Fri, Mar 13 2009, 10:15 am

sarahd wrote:

JC wrote:

If I understand correctly the amount of actual money lost (capital) was much smaller than reported. The bulk of the lost money was the extremely high profits he was saying he earned for his clients.

Yes, it was "only" about $17 billion, not $50 billion. Someone remarked that the man is a true genius - he managed to get people to believe that $17 billion (that's $17,000,000,000!!!!) is "not so much" money.

Besides, people would have invested their money in other things and -- barring the market for the past 6 months or so -- are likely to have gotten a substantial return. Even savings accounts paid something. Over a 13 year period (the period in which he made no investments at all), you'd expect conservatively invested funds to go up 25% to 50% at the very least.

Besides, that's like saying that my 401(k) didn't lose any money. When I put the money in, it was worth X. It went up to 150% X over a period of years. If its now at 90% X, does that mean I didn't lose much????

frumluv

Fri, Mar 13 2009, 10:54 am

Pickle Lady wrote:

The whole thing is sick. sick sick

Bernie Madoff did a HUGE chillul hashem.

He and his family lived an extravagant life off other peoples money. That is just beyond wrong.

I totally agree! His victims range from middle class to upper class people, as well as educational institutions, foundations, etc. etc. IMHO Madoff is a very bad person!!!! I don't know how he & his family could live with themselves knowing good & well that he invested none of these people's money. Just pocketed it for his extravagant lifestyle. Mad