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eschaya

Mon, Jul 05 2010, 6:23 am

raspberry tea wrote:

Chavelamomela wrote:

In my case, I was specifically concerned with post-partum hemorrhage, b/c I had had one after Elish was born. After some research, we think the cause of the hemorrhage was b/c my MW who cared for me with Elish (not the same MW), we suspect she tugged the placenta out before it was ready to come out (this is unfortunately a common intervention in hospital births, and it is linked to hemorrhage). With my 2nd birth, this time at home, she did not tug on the umbilical cord to yank out the placenta - we waited for my own natural contractions to expel the placenta. I also took Shepherd's Purse, which is an herbal remedy that is very helpful to help with post-trauma bleeding, and I had been drinking tons of Red Rasberry Leaf (RRL) tea throughout my labor, which helps the uterus be properly toned (A natural great way to prevent post-partum Hemorrhage is to drink a VERY HOT brew of RRL right before giving birth). I did all these natural preventions to help, and I did not have a hemorrage with this birth. (In fact, I stopped bleeding very quickly - I had an amazing recovery!).

Welcome Chavelamomela!! I think you will find many here with your natural parenting mind set.

So I assume you and your midwives feel that a past postpartum hemorrhage is still consider low risk?

I don't know how midwives hold, I'm curious. It sounds like you and the midwives made an educated guess that the cause was by tugging at the placenta? B'H everything went well for you this time and you didn't have it again!

My second birth (a vbac) I had serious postpartum hemorrhage. I went into shock and passed out a several times. Just recently I was chatting w/ the doula who was at that birth. She said it was the scariest thing for her to see me white as a ghost passed out in a pool of blood. Even though I experienced that, I wasn't convinced I was high risk. I thought it would be a one time affair. So my next one I HB'd again. Only after shopping around a bit for someone willing to take me. This second home birth postpartum was a repeat of my first. Really it wasn't something my midwives were capable of handling. Oh yeah and I was religious with the red raspberry leaf tea and nettles along with some others. But, that didn't help me! Made for great short strong labors, but didn't help with hemorrhage.

Now I know really the safest place for me is the hospital. Not that I wouldn't prefer to give birth at home.

I didn't watch your video, I'll admit I'm a little nervous. After so many nice comments on it I may. But, I'm one of those woman who won't look at a mirror to see her baby coming out, let alone watch a video on a birth!

You did a VBAC at home? Isn't that kind of risky?

jaysmom

Mon, Jul 05 2010, 6:37 am

Chavelamomela wrote:

jaysmom wrote:

Chava, I am a big fan of the midwife, natural birth thing, and would love to have a water birth myslef but weren't you concerned about the need for possible medical intervention? I would be so scared to not give birth in a Hospital, even if everything seemed alright beforehand. What if I need that last minute C-section chas v'shalom? What if you started to tear and needed stitches (or would the midwife be able to do that in your home)? I am sure you have thought about these things, as you seem like a very thought out person.

Okay, sorry for the megillas...I really am not this "preachy" but when it's a topic I know a lot about and am passionate about...well, you got me started! Smile

A big part of a home-birth Midife (HBMW)'s job is to screen out appropriate candidates for HB before labor actually happens. Women who are higher risk are usually not recommended to have a HB.

As for safety of HB, there are actually some excellent and reputable studies (most recently, a great study in Canada that compared low-risk women patients of MW's who delivered in hospitals vs. low-risk women patients of the same MW's who had HB's - and the outcomes were just as safe for HB;s (in terms of mortality rates), while the level of interventions for HB's (episiotomies, c-sections, etc) were incredibly reduced with the women who chose to HB. There is generally a 10-15% transfer rate ("transfer" refers to women who attempt a HB but must go to a hospital for either pitocin to get things moving, a c-section, or post-partum assistance with them or the baby). 2nd-timers like me (multi-para=women who've already given birth before) have a much lower transfer rate (and transfers don't =bad outcome, just more intervention needed than what the MW can provide).

(The vast majority of HB transfers are NOT emergencies - For example, often it could be a stalled labor where the patient and MW agree after trying everything they can that it's time to go to the hospital for labor augmentation with pitocin (which requires you to be in a hospital). This can be a very calm and reasonable reason for transfer. )

Now, back to your original question. In a nutshell, the MW brings quite a bit of emergency equipment with her to every homebirth (my MW brings two suitcases with her). She has oxygen with her, pitocin (to administer post-birth in case of a hemorrhage, etc. The HBMW has the same equipment that you'd find in a birthing center, but it's right in the comfort of your own home, no need to travel!

In my case, I was specifically concerned with post-partum hemorrhage, b/c I had had one after Elish was born. After some research, we think the cause of the hemorrhage was b/c my MW who cared for me with Elish (not the same MW), we suspect she tugged the placenta out before it was ready to come out (this is unfortunately a common intervention in hospital births, and it is linked to hemorrhage). With my 2nd birth, this time at home, she did not tug on the umbilical cord to yank out the placenta - we waited for my own natural contractions to expel the placenta. I also took Shepherd's Purse, which is an herbal remedy that is very helpful to help with post-trauma bleeding, and I had been drinking tons of Red Rasberry Leaf (RRL) tea throughout my labor, which helps the uterus be properly toned (A natural great way to prevent post-partum Hemorrhage is to drink a VERY HOT brew of RRL right before giving birth). I did all these natural preventions to help, and I did not have a hemorrage with this birth. (In fact, I stopped bleeding very quickly - I had an amazing recovery!).

As for stitches and tearing - this is pretty standard for the MW to be able to stitch them up - she did this in the comfort of my own home. (I tore a bit, nothing major).

Wow. Thank you for the explanation. You looked at the statistics and they were in your favor. Thats how I ended up using a midwife with my son. Husband was skeptical, but he couldn't argue with the statistics. Its also interesting to note that the transfer rate is lower with a second pregnancy.
I drank a ton of raspberry leaf tea in the last four weeks of pregnancy, but none during labor. B"H I didn't have post partum hemorrhage, but I am all about prevention. Thanks for the tip. I am glad you had a fast recovery.
Did you have back labor in the end? I know you said you felt some pressure in your back at one point.

Chavelamomela

Mon, Jul 05 2010, 6:39 am

Quote:

You did a VBAC at home? Isn't that kind of risky?

(woops, not about me.)

Anyway, A VBAC at home is actually a lot safer than you think. My MW does HBAC frequently.

Last edited by Chavelamomela on Mon, Jul 05 2010, 6:43 am; edited 1 time in total

Inspired

Mon, Jul 05 2010, 6:41 am

eschaya wrote:

raspberry tea wrote:

Chavelamomela wrote:

You did a VBAC at home? Isn't that kind of risky?

Home pregnancy after Cesarean is kind of risky too.
I am not very pro HBAC- it is really very individual decision. But at least in a HB the mother has a caregiver with her at all times. Unlike in the hospital.
But, its a farce to ignore the risks of a post cesarean pregnancy and only focus on the risks of a VBAC.

Chavelamomela

Mon, Jul 05 2010, 6:51 am

jaysmom wrote:

Did you have back labor in the end? I know you said you felt some pressure in your back at one point.

Nope. I had back-labor with my first labor, but I found out that back labor is quite manageable if you have someone doing counter-preassure on your lower back with every contraction. Otherwise, it's quite difficult. Since I had my doula and DH there to apply counter pressure, it was totally manageable.

This time, I was very much interested in preventing back labor, and focused on my sitting posture in the last weeks of pregnancy to keep he baby facing in the right way. It worked. No back labor this time.

Hashem_Yaazor

Mon, Jul 05 2010, 7:00 am

kitov wrote:

I didn't want to comment about the "touching" part on this thread. I wanted to start a "spinoff" rather. But since you mentioned it, I was wondering, a)she says somewhere along that "there's a bloody show already" rendering her niddah, b)she had said before labor that "she was not expecting her dh to assist in the birthing process due to his condition, so she had lined up help to replace him, c)her lower body was exposed, so he can't look either.

Unless they don't keep harchokes when niddah, that would answer it all.

a)not everyone holds bloody show makes one nidda, as it's from capillaries bursting in the cervix
b)during birth, needs change (not that I didn't wonder myself, but he didn't touch her after birth)
c)who said he was looking there?

Raisin

Mon, Jul 05 2010, 7:01 am

chavela, who looked after you (and your older son) the first few days after birth, if your dh was out of commission?

Chavelamomela

Mon, Jul 05 2010, 7:10 am

Raisin wrote:

chavela, who looked after you (and your older son) the first few days after birth, if your dh was out of commission?

My mother-in-law came for shabbas (baby was born on erev shabbas).

(My parents live in Israel and arrived later the next week, before the bris).

The hardest day was Yom Kippur, which was 3 days after I gave birth (even had I had a hospital birth, I would have been home). Everyone (including DH) was fasting, so I really had to take care of myself. It was rough, but we survived.

Hashem_Yaazor

Mon, Jul 05 2010, 7:11 am

Chavelamomela wrote:

saw50st8 wrote:

Chavi,

Mazal tov! May you have lots of nachas from both your sons. I hope your husband is recovering well.

I'm debating a home birth if I get pregnant with my third.

I don't know if I would let anyone film me though - I wouldn't want anyone recording my moaning and groaning!

That's okay! Just because I went on TV with my birth doesn't mean its something for everyone! (I can assure you, I am aware it is unusual and not everyone's cup of tea).

I don't think you need to film it! However, I did find that when I was first learning about labor and birth when I was pg with ds1, watching films of other natural births did help me understand that these sounds are normal and healthy. In fact, one of the most memorable items I remember from my birth class was when the childbirth educator played an audio recording of the sounds of birth! Since the vast majority of labors take place these days with pain medications, doctors and nurses are not used to hearing these sounds, and women in labor (and their spouses) are often unprepared for the NOISE that a healthy laboring woman makes - not high-pitched squeals, but low moaning and groaning that are actually quite helpful to getting through each contraction. Vocalization is an important and often overlooked aspect of birth.

The moans relax your vocal cords, and simultaneously relax your pelvic muscles. I also found it very helpful in my own births.

Hashem_Yaazor

Mon, Jul 05 2010, 7:16 am

Chavelamomela wrote:

We had a choice of administering an injection as a preventative measure against PPH, and I chose to have that injection as a preventative measure, which worked and seamed like a reasonable choice for me.

Me too -- I have had excessive bleeding after births, and after my third ended up needing pit and methergine injections because I was gushing and passing huge clots. So this past time the midwife asked if I wanted a pit injection after excessive bleeding or wait a few more minutes, and I decided, based on my history, it was safer to just take it then.

maapse

Mon, Jul 05 2010, 10:46 am

Chavele - After reading 10 pages I only have ONE QUESTION!
WHY ARE YOU NOT A DOULA/MIDWIFE AND BREASTFEEDING COUNSELLOR?
You would be the EXACT type of person I would want at my births. seriously, I wish I could hire you.

soulful music

Mon, Jul 05 2010, 11:04 am

Welcome Chavele!
I would love to hire your doula (when/if the time comes) Can you please post her contact info?

LeahW

Mon, Jul 05 2010, 12:52 pm

Chavele, since your birth was erev Shabbos and a few days before Yom Kippur, I wondered what were the expectations of the people at A Baby Story if your birth came out on Shabbos or Yom Kippur. Did they realize it wasn't going to happen if that were the case?

eschaya

Mon, Jul 05 2010, 1:23 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

Chavelamomela wrote:

saw50st8 wrote:

The moans relax your vocal cords, and simultaneously relax your pelvic muscles. I also found it very helpful in my own births.

Low moans and vocalizations also keep the glottis open which prevents closed-glottis pushing (aka Valsalva manouver) which is what happens when drs say, "now take a breath, hold it, and push, push, push". Lots of research to show that this leads to worse outcomes, especially with regard to perineal integrity.

chavs

Mon, Jul 05 2010, 1:51 pm

Hi Chavale! nice to see you here (handwave).

Just to say again, that it was a beautiful video and may you have much nachcas!

Btw, I didnt notice you wore a red shirt but I did get the joke and it was kind of funny.

2ndly, I have never heard of the placenta being forced out, my labours were fairly normal hospital brths with midwives and I had to push the placenta out each time which afair went pretty smoothly, at the time I dont think I coudl have cared less about it because of the baby in my arms.
Are births in America really that different then in England?

Chavelamomela

Mon, Jul 05 2010, 7:55 pm

soulful music wrote:

Welcome Chavele!
I would love to hire your doula (when/if the time comes) Can you please post her contact info?

feel free to pm me.

Chavelamomela

Mon, Jul 05 2010, 7:58 pm

LeahW wrote:

They knew and we took that chance that it would be chol.

kitov

Mon, Jul 05 2010, 9:13 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

kitov wrote:

My questions were asked BEFORE we knew her particular practice of Judaism. It's cleared up, no need to comment on the "touchy" issue, ok?

About the bolded. I really watched the birth in depth, primarily because I wanted to learn more about an actual real life HB. I was looking out for three things, 1.how the house is setup, 2. how the woman dresses, acts, deals with pain, etc, and 3. how the husband interacts with the wife, and laboring staff. In each of the 3 categories, I closely examined ther actions and reactions and compared them to how my hospital births were. I won't start a megillah here on all the details, but to answer your question number 3, at one point in very active labor, I think about the time squating was discussed or where Chavi tells about feeling pressure, her dh catches a glimpse into the tub, as in looking for the baby to emerge. I specifically remember when I watched it, I went back to see this particular "pose" again and again, since it struck me very genuine. It was like kind of "I forgot I'm on camera and I'm acting my real self now" moment. It was a priceless sympathetic-with-my-wife-look.

Chavelamomela

Mon, Jul 05 2010, 9:18 pm

Kitov, in terms of the issue of the husband "looking" during birth, our Rav told us the issue that is forbidden is looking directly at the baby emerge from the birth canal. Since I wasn't spread-eagle on a bed, it would be impossible for anyone to see this, as the angle I was in was upright, and no one could actually look between my legs directly at the birth canal.

kitov

Mon, Jul 05 2010, 9:23 pm

Chavelamomela wrote:

Chavi, please don't feel like you have to excuse how you do your things, I'm not questioning that. I'm commenting on the look of your dh's face after "he caught" a glimpse. I really liked it, and kept on reviewing that part again and again. Good for you to be the lucky wife of such a compassionate man!

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