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Why aren't Bat Mitzvahs celebrated like Bar Mitzvahs?
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amother


 

Post Mon, Jan 11 2010, 9:33 pm
Is there an explanation or reason why we celebrate Bar Mitzvahs big time in grand halls, with lavish meals, lots of preparations and nice gifts for the Bar Mitzvah boy while Bat Mitzvahs go unnoticed?
I know many people will do something or celebrate it and I've been to some myself but on a whole in most communities from the ultra Yeshivish/Chassidish, to Modern Orthodox it is not celebrated at all or at least not on the same level as a Bar Mitzvah.
Any reason for this? Isn't a girl just as well taking on the responsibility of the Torah and Mitzvahs?
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Tova




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 11 2010, 9:47 pm
I plan on making my son (not even 3 yet, but yes, I have thought of this!) a nice seudah - in our home or simple shul social hall - on the Bo Bayom, inviting family, Rabbeim, and classmates (if the accepted thing to do). He can lein on Shabbos if he wants; no pressure to learn his parsha (this one comes from my husband, the veteran leiner) and a simple kiddush in shul after davening. That's it. He will get tefillin and the focus will be on kabbalas hamitzvos.

For my daughter I would make a party (of the same scale as the Bo Bayom) - either home or shul social hall - with family and her classmates. Do a crafts project (as was the norm when we were young). Basically same thing minus the aliya l'Torah (which he would have regardless if he actually leins) and kiddush.
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shalhevet




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 11 2010, 11:17 pm
amother wrote:
Is there an explanation or reason why we celebrate Bar Mitzvahs big time in grand halls, with lavish meals,


No.
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shalhevet




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 11 2010, 11:24 pm
To answer your question, there is more of a change for a boy - he is now part of a minyan with a chiyuv of tefilla b'tzibbur and putting on tefillin.

Kol kevoda bas melech pnima - a King's daughter's honour is inside. It is the opposite of tzniyus to make public parties, especially some (MO) bas mitzva parties I have been to with the girls saying divrei Torah, speeches etc in front of men. A girl, in essence, continues what she was doing - there is no practical change, except that she now has to do mitzvos from Torah/ rabbinic halacha and not because of chinuch.

The whole idea of such big parties etc for boys as well is just a modern idea. In fact, often the bigger the bar, the smaller the mitzva. In many secular circles there is no longer any connection between the massive, lavish party and any mitzvos at all.

Even a modest reception/ simple meal which is what most people in Litvish/ chassidish circles in EY do today is a modern innovation.
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Seraph




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 12 2010, 12:04 am
Tova wrote:
I plan on making my son (not even 3 yet, but yes, I have thought of this!) a nice seudah - in our home or simple shul social hall - on the Bo Bayom, inviting family, Rabbeim, and classmates (if the accepted thing to do). He can lein on Shabbos if he wants; no pressure to learn his parsha (this one comes from my husband, the veteran leiner) and a simple kiddush in shul after davening. That's it. He will get tefillin and the focus will be on kabbalas hamitzvos.

For my daughter I would make a party (of the same scale as the Bo Bayom) - either home or shul social hall - with family and her classmates. Do a crafts project (as was the norm when we were young). Basically same thing minus the aliya l'Torah (which he would have regardless if he actually leins) and kiddush.


Sounds great to me too!
I was actually just talking about this to my husband, that when our boys grow up, I want to make a bo bayom dinner in our home for our family, immediate, grandparents, whichever cousins want to come, etc... and then make a trip or something for his friends, and then a kiddush in shul or at our home.
I don't see why people spend so much money on lavish bar mitzvas. Its a waste, and usually the bar mitzva boy doesnt even enjoy his bar mitzva. The parents make big smachos for their own sake, but I'm sure the bar mitzva boys and his friends don't even enjoy them...
This was on my mind because my youngest brother's bar mitzva is coming up soon.
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 12 2010, 1:05 am
I have noticed in my own family that my brothers bar mitzvas got more lavish over the years - never over the top though - a seuda just for family and the boys classmates and recces and a reception for everyone. I think when it comes to it people feel compelled to bow to peer pressure - all the boys friends are doing xyz so we have to do xyz.

I will certainly make a bigger deal of my dds bas mitzvas then mine was, although it will be a women only event.

Shalhevet, there are certainly things a Bas Mitzva girl can do that she didn't before - fast, she can be a mikva shomer, be responsible for kashrus etc. And it still doesn't explain why it's less of a celebration.
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shalhevet




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 12 2010, 1:28 am
Fasting moves from chinuch to mitzva.

She can do other things too, like take challa, toivel keilim (though actually it's a bit of a problem for a girl - or a boy- who hasn't reached physical puberty to do mitzvos for someone else), but she doesn't have the same change of being chayav with tefillin, minyan that a boy does.
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Marion




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 12 2010, 1:39 am
But you don't actually have to make a big seudah to fulfill either of those mitzvot. So the boy starts going to minyan and laying tefillin. (Actually, most boys I remember started laying tefillin about a month before they were bar mitzvah for chinuch purposes, so I'm not sure why that's any different than a girl whose fasting changes.) A boy's status change is already more public in that sense...so why the need (in many cases) for a big dvar Torah, and an aliyah l'Torah, and a siyum masechet? Just to show what he's learned? I don't see anything wrong with a girl getting up in front of her friends and family and giving a dvar Torah on one of the mitzvot that she's now accepting on herself. (In fact, this could be especially important in the case of a girl who is a giyoret from infancy, as she needs to accept ol malchut shamayim and mitzvot for herself at bat mitzvah, otherwise her conversion may be problematic.)
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HindaRochel




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 12 2010, 4:52 am
Actually,

I think Bar Mitzvah's should be more like Bat Mitzvah's. No big parties, boy gets called to the Torah, everyone wishes him mazel tov and there is a kiddish.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Jan 12 2010, 5:24 am
I am currently planning a bar mitzva for bechor. It will not be elaborate at all. We go to a small shteibel and his bar mitzva falls on shabbos, so we will have a kiddush that is nicer than average for the shul followed by a shabbos seudah in our home with some of our closest adopted family (no local family) who eat by us often anyway. Then we are renting a small hall (imagine a shul basement) for a seudah for ds' class and some out of town close friends who are also like adopted family. Following that we will have an open house for the whole community with desserts, salads and drinks. We are planning to have most of the food home made, by us. We are hoping to hire a keyboard player who sings to play for part of it. The boys here do a whole singing thing for the bar mitzva boy and music makes it more special. I would love to do it at home but in our home we would not even have room for ds' class.
Were I planning a bat mitzva I would do the same for my daughter, but the guests would be all women and the musician a woman.
I think it is important to celebrate this milestone in the child's life, whether the child is male or female and show him/ her that becoming a full fledged member of klal yisrael is something to celebrate.
We do not make big birthday parties for our kids, usually I bake a cake and make dinner something thre kid likes and invite some of the above mentioned local "adopted family" or some neighbor kids, depending on the kids age. A bar / bat mitzva is a big deal and deserves a proper celebration. I think grand halls and lavish halls are unnecessary but a seudah with enough room and food for the child's friends and some of yours is entirely appropriate.
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tweety99




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 12 2010, 5:54 am
There was a whole write up on this in the Binah mag about 2 or 3 weeks ago..
basically in a nutshell it was saying like shalhevet said that a girls main essence is tznius and its very against the spirit of tznius to have lavish partys and make her a celebrity.
the whole concept has gone way over the top nowadays in the secular world.
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chaylizi




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 12 2010, 6:13 am
I only have one brother. His bar mitzvah consisted on a kiddush on shabbos (and a sit down meal in the shul for family). He made a siyum motzaei shabbos on a seder of mishnah & we had a seudas mitzvah in honor of that. Possibly fancy for some, but I thought it was beautiful and classy.

As for Bas Mitzvahs. in my school there was a class party in our auditorium. We sang songs for our female family members, we handmade a present for our mothers & there was a meal that we helped make ourselves. In addition, we were allowed to make either a shalashudis (I never have any clue how to spell that) or a melave malka to celebrate out own personal birthday.
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 12 2010, 6:18 am
they differ amongst people, sects, towns and monetary means ...
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 12 2010, 7:53 am
Rabbi Reisman spoke about this a few weeks ago or so. Give me some time to find and distill my notes, I've been on the computer way too long already.
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 12 2010, 8:10 am
Tsnius (as has been mentioned here before) applies to both genders. Sometimes, those involved in the big parties can lose sight of that -- not in terms of public speaking issues, but in terms of the party aspect.

What we did in our family was to have Shabbos lunch at our house for our friends and relatives -- same for our boys and our girls.

We will do the hall thing for chassunas, though.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Jan 12 2010, 8:18 am
I don't know, many people in my class had elaborate Bas Mitzvah's just like a wedding. In a big fancy hall, caterer, photographer, band, etc. etc.

Personally, my (already elderly) parents refused to make me one. They said it was some newfangled 'mishegas' that they never heard of they refuse to be a part of. I had a small sleep-over party in my living room with pizza and ice cream for 8 friends.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Jan 12 2010, 8:43 am
Most posters here talked of keeping it simple for both. None mentioned examples of where the son in a family got what appeared to be a coronation and the daughter got a 'hey, didn't your brother do a great job?'.

I know of one family with b/g twins. They had a nice not over the top Bar Mitzvah and the daughter got absolutely nothing.

I always wonder how the daughter felt as she got older, saw the BM pics and remembered basically being ignored.
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Zus




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 12 2010, 9:14 am
In the community I come from, it's the custom to celebrate a bat mitzvah just as big as a bar mitzva. So you'll have a kiddush at shul on shabat in the week of the bat mitzvah, including a drasha from the rav.
Then on motzash or Sunday evening, there is a big(ish) party at a catering hall/hotel including dressed up guests, a band and a photographer.
The only difference between boys and girls is that a boy gets an aliya and a girl doesn't.
In my family, we also organise a limmud and it doesn't matter if it's for a boy or girl.
My own bat mitzvah was like this too.

Our oldest DS and the DDs that follow right after him, will become bar/bat mitzvah at the same time. We are planning to throw 1 huge party for all 3 at once.

By the way, we also make a seudah the size of a brit for the birth of a girl.
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tovarena




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 12 2010, 9:16 am
Okay, I know we're the exception but the party aspect was quite backwards in my family. My brother was literally physically sick at the idea of getting up in front of everyone and speaking and/or laining. So there was a small kiddush in his honor the shabbos before his actual birthday (no laining or even aliyah on shabbos). His birthday happens to be on rosh chodesh and the school we attended had a special breakfast every rosh chodesh after davening. So he got his aliyah in the school davening. And my mom sponsored the breakfast and made it even nicer than usual. Aside from the school kids, my parents and grandparents came. And that was it.

For me, she had me learn with a rebbetzin a whole summer and prepare a dvar Torah to be given at a Sunday luncheon with friends and family. This party was when all the out of town relatives came in. Some might consider it not tzniyus, but it definitely gave me a special appreciation of the portions I learned because I learned them in a non-rushed setting with an appreciation for the meaning and even for the learning itself. Let's face it - it may be Torah, but most pre-teen kids are just viewing it as what they have to learn to get through the next test.

We will likely do something very similar for our DD. The party itself does not have to be fancy, but I believe there's a real value in asking a child (regardless of gender) to learn and prepare a dvar Torah in their own words.
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Apple pie




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 12 2010, 10:57 am
If you make modest celebrations for both genders - it's one thing.

But as the case is now, boys do get big celebrations (some more than others), so the question remains: why not make something similar for girls?

You have a problem with Tznius? She does not have to speak... her father or the rabbi can give the Dvar Torah. (what would be the point then? well, at a wedding, the kallah does not speak either, and neither does the choson usually). Or you can have a all-women affair, and she can make a Dvar Torah.

This would be more fair...
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