Do you break the mold?

Seraph

Tue, Jan 19 2010, 3:07 am

You have to first find a mold that suits you before you can break it.
I'm a little bit of a lot of things.
I break the yeshivish mold because my husband has peyos and wears the chassidish levush and davens in a chassidish shul and we follow chassidish hashkafos for the most part and because I don't wear a sheitel.
I break the chassidish mold because we pasken halacha like the litvish, keep pesach like the litvish (gebrukts, non peeled veggies), daven a litvishe nusach and pronounce things the litvish way.
I break the israeli chareidi mold by having a non kosher phone, by having a working husband, by having internet, and by believing that certain things forbidden by israeli chareidi society are ok.
I break the american chareidi/yeshivish mold by refusing to wear a sheitel and keeping different tznius standards.

I break the yuppy mold by living my "hippy" alternative life.

cinnamon

Tue, Jan 19 2010, 3:23 am

Seraph wrote:

You have to first find a mold that suits you before you can break it.

I actually wish I can find a mold that fits me I feel kinda lonely in the moldless life I lead.

I am not modern chareidi (aka the minivam women) because my husband learns and I do not dress in short skirts and tight shirts and I strive for a more hiliger home and hope to send my kids to frummer schools.
I am not strict israeli chareidi because I have internet and I drive and wear denim and a sheitel they would not approve of.
I am not chardali because I do not hold with their hashkafos.

I really don't have a mold to break. What

cinnamon

Tue, Jan 19 2010, 3:36 am

FraydaSue wrote:

Cinnamon - don't be lonely Hug

- you are like a lot of us! It is comforting to know that you're not alone . . .

thanks!

which begs the question, if their are so many people who break the mold (I know a lot of people who say they do not fit the molds of their community irl to even though I think they so fit in)
is there really a mold to break? or is every one really doing their own thing and just thinks that every one else fits?

Rodent

Tue, Jan 19 2010, 6:37 am

I am very far from fitting a mould (in case noone has noticed that). My husband also refuses to 'label' us as anything but "Jewish". People think he's hassidish when they look at him with his beard (fairish), peyot and long suit. But he's sepharadi. Pronounces Hebrew most closely to tamanim (but not exact there either). Follows Rambam exclusively. I don't wear a sheitel (net-ish snood generally, hats sometimes with bad underneath to cover hair). Particular about tzniut but do wear red. The mikveh lady thinks I'm from another planet because I only dunk once. We have a tv, internet, work, plan to homeschool or public school. Our son wears a variety of kippot in a variety of colours, from black velvet to leather with sports team emblems, to knitted, to bucharian -- anything that looks nice.

We are public and open about everything. I refuse to hide things as I am not ashamed of anything we do. I've tried to fit in to some degree in the past but it was miserable and not me and my confidence has sky-rocketed since I just decided to be myself. Everyone else can go jump.

Ruchel

Tue, Jan 19 2010, 7:32 am

jelibean wrote:

shanie5 wrote:

I refuse any mold. I dress as I am comfortable-denim skirts-long. I used to only wear sneakers. I wear a cap similar to my avatar-even on shabbos if I dont feel like wearing my shaitel. I do not follow anybody-so yeah, there is no mold for me.

Are you a BT? What type of rav do you consult on shailahs? Just asking b/c I'm curious as to how you'd describe yourself in a frum context.

she sounds just plain frum

jelibean

Tue, Jan 19 2010, 8:56 am

Ruchel wrote:

jelibean wrote:

shanie5 wrote:

Are you a BT? What type of rav do you consult on shailahs? Just asking b/c I'm curious as to how you'd describe yourself in a frum context.

she sounds just plain frum

Funny you say that because when a good friend of mine and I were starting on the teshuva path, she said "Why can't I just be frum?" While I love the idea of 'just plain frum', is that really possible? I mean, what is that? You've got Ashkenazi, Sephardi, Chassidish, Litvish, Modern, American, Israeli, British/South African, French, combos of aforementioned and so on and so on..

I assume it's all in the eye of the beholder.

Ruchel

Tue, Jan 19 2010, 9:00 am

jelibean wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

jelibean wrote:

shanie5 wrote:

Are you a BT? What type of rav do you consult on shailahs? Just asking b/c I'm curious as to how you'd describe yourself in a frum context.

she sounds just plain frum

My opinion on this:

Ashkenazi, Sefardi, Chassidish, etc is a minhag/origin. Inside it you have more or less modern, especially if you exclude chasidish (but some people have a chassidish mindset and minhag while practicing MO level).

America, French, etc, means nothing special. Too much melting pot.

I define just plain frum as Orthodox. Not especially modern, not especially ultra. Of course it's all relative.

jelibean

Tue, Jan 19 2010, 9:04 am

So another question I have is, what about the kids? How do you define your kids' identities? I mean, we've chosen our own, but kids need more of a sense of who they are and where they belong.

A personal example. We have 4 children, B"H. My older two just started at a Chabad cheder this past school year. Their best friend is from family of geirim that's now Litvish. He slept over one night, and when I walked into the room, one son asked me if we're Chabanikim. Now I don't call myself a Chabadnikit, but my son was asking me for some direction. So I said, "yes." He looked at his frie and said, "Told you so." And that was that.

While I'm 'open' in my identity, I know my kids need a strong one. Especially as we're BTs, and they're exposed to family that's not religious, anti-religious and even not Jewish.

Ruchel

Tue, Jan 19 2010, 9:11 am

If my dd asked me, I would say we're frum. Because that's the easiest answer. Dh and I are of different rites, educations and levels.

If she asked for more, I would say our minhag is Yekke because that's her dad's origin.

If she is very curious, but I don't see this coming before yeaaaars, I'll say we go by dad's minhag, which is Yekke, but I'm of various chassidish origins and when dad has no special minhag we incorporate mine, blah blah, and that she goes by her family's minhag but will follow her husband's when she's big.

I wouldn't call ourselves by the shul or school we choose, unless it happened to be right.

shanie5

Tue, Jan 19 2010, 10:52 pm

Ruchel wrote:

jelibean wrote:

shanie5 wrote:

Are you a BT? What type of rav do you consult on shailahs? Just asking b/c I'm curious as to how you'd describe yourself in a frum context.

she sounds just plain frum

yep, thats me, just plain frum. If my kids want to define themselves as they grow older, fine. my eldest ds is 'yeshivish'. None of my others have labeled themselves-yet. My goal is to teach them that as long as they follow the torah, they can be who they want to be-and not have to be just like anyone else.

mummiedearest

Tue, Jan 19 2010, 11:06 pm

I conform to the mold of halacha, but break the chumra mold. does that make sense? I too am "frum." no extra label. I differentiate between halacha and chumra, and I hope my children do too. if I follow a chumra, it's because I feel it's right for me, not because the whole community assumes it to be halacha. if my kids want to take on chumras, that's fine. as long as they know that they are following chumras. I really think people in my community don't know the difference in many circumstances.

Reality

Tue, Jan 19 2010, 11:24 pm

I break the mold usually. When I dress up I look like everyone else in my community. But everyday when I am home with my kids than I dress in denim & sneakers & that is a big no no in my community but I don't care. I also keep my kids home until kindergarten & I am sick & tired of discussing my choices. In my neighborhood many sahm put their kids in playgroup starting 18 months & for sure by age 2. I am also a mini health nut & people in my neck of the woods stuff their kids with TONS of junk!!

Those are just small mundane examples of how I break the mold. There are many others but they all kind of add up to a jigsaw puzzle of who I am. I love being a sahm mother but on the other hand I want to talk about other things than diapers & clothes when I am talking to other moms. That is when I feel like I stick out the most. I want to talk about politics, books & ideas not only babies. Sometimes it drives me crazy discussing the same 2 topics ad nauseam!! (might be a sp?)

Anyone else feel like that?

Atali

Tue, Jan 19 2010, 11:56 pm

Reality wrote:

Yes! Which is why I ~~waste~~ spend my time on here. However, I am not a stay-at-home mom or it would really drive me nuts

For some reason it seems like so many women, even those who were quite capable of holding an intelligent discussion before marriage, are suddenly incapable of doing so after giving birth the first time. Is there some hormonal change that occurs at childbirth that renders women incapable of talking about topics other that where to find diapers on sale and what they are making for dinner?

ilovedacb

Wed, Jan 20 2010, 12:17 am

What a refreshing post! I to am breaking the mold I suppose. I am a divorced, working mom of 4 B"H. I do not really classify myself as anything but Jewish and was especially touched by Shanie5s posts. I am especially impressed with some of the post in this thread because they are respectful, honest and not narrow minded. I am breaking the mold because of the 10 closest woman in my life (whom btw range from Chassidish to not Jewish) I am the only one who is not now nor every been supported by a parent and works a full time job in what people call the secular world while raising my kids 99.5 percent of the time.

cinnamon

Wed, Jan 20 2010, 2:50 am

WriterMom wrote:

Seraph wrote:

I break the israeli chareidi mold by having a non kosher phone,

Tangent, but ... kosher phone? What am I missing? Is a cellphone that browses the internet a problem?

yes. Israeli chareidi rabanim say that non kosher cellphones are a problem. Non kosher phones are those that browse the internet and can send and receive text messages.

Seraph

Wed, Jan 20 2010, 3:02 am

WriterMom wrote:

Seraph wrote:

I break the israeli chareidi mold by having a non kosher phone,

Tangent, but ... kosher phone? What am I missing? Is a cellphone that browses the internet a problem?

Kosher phones arent allowed to browse the internet, don't have text messaging, have one of 4 annoying ring tones, have no camera, have no mp3 player, and have a unique number (all them start the same way) so that way everyone can know just by seeing your numbr if your number is treif or kosher. Oh, and there is a big hechsher stamped on the back so everyone can see if your phone is kosher or not while using it.